1.2.0c AOF, Molten Strike, Herald of Ash

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solidghost wrote:

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Killertortilla wrote:

It's not 200% with AoF because only half the elements get converted. I have explained multiple times why I don't use more than one element.

Not too sure what you mean by one element but using molten strike (60%) + aof (50%), all (max 100%) of your physical damage is converted to fire. Elemental damage bonus will apply to all the fire damage (that was converted from physcial) right?

I only use one element and no physical because I can increase it with just one curse, instead of having to use 3 to do the same thing. Yes the elemental damage does apply but having a 1 handed weapon will be roughly 2 thirds of the overkill burn which is not enough in some situations.

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Killertortilla wrote:

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solidghost wrote:

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Killertortilla wrote:

It's not 200% with AoF because only half the elements get converted. I have explained multiple times why I don't use more than one element.

Not too sure what you mean by one element but using molten strike (60%) + aof (50%), all (max 100%) of your physical damage is converted to fire. Elemental damage bonus will apply to all the fire damage (that was converted from physcial) right?

I only use one element and no physical because I can increase it with just one curse, instead of having to use 3 to do the same thing. Yes the elemental damage does apply but having a 1 handed weapon will be roughly 2 thirds of the overkill burn which is not enough in some situations.

I still don't think you understand what we're talking about.

In this case, "increased elemental damage" is functionally the same as "increased fire damage". Once you have 100% conversion.

Anyway, I'm still interested in seeing how viable Doryani's is, so let's do some math!

The average damage of a perfect-rolled Primacy is 427 (again, since we're converting 100% to fire, there's no difference between physical and fire)

Again assuming a rather low 200% increased damage, that plus the 1.2 damage modifier of Molten Strike comes to 1537 damage before other more multipliers.

Doryani's deals a rather small 193 damage per hit (300pdps * (1/1.55)). If you add in increased damage and change the multiplier to 1.5 from heavy strike, you get 1161 damage per hit, 25% less damage.

If you were to dual wield Doryani's and use molten strike however, you would get 1389 damage per hit, only 10% less damage, which could be acceptable due to having a much faster attack speed for bosses and enemies without mobs around them (up to 1.7 or so compared to the Kaom's 1), that 15% block chance, and a free 2% life leech from elemental damage (which, combined with the belt, would be enough leech to justify dropping the gem imo). Not to mention your burns would benefit from an extra 200% elemental damage.

Just for fun, let's look at a Marohi, the slowest and hardest-hitting unique in the game:
It comes out to around 535 damage per hit, which with 200% increased damage and Molten Strike, gives you around 1927 damage per hit. If you could somehow pick up an extra 100% increased damage from the tree, that turns this into 2,500 damage per hit, which is pretty damn impressive.

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Killertortilla wrote:

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solidghost wrote:

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Killertortilla wrote:

It's not 200% with AoF because only half the elements get converted. I have explained multiple times why I don't use more than one element.

**************MISTAKE, DO NOT FOLLOW**********************

Not too sure what you mean by one element but using molten strike (60%) + aof (50%), all (max 100%) of your physical damage is converted to fire. Elemental damage bonus will apply to all the fire damage (that was converted from physcial) right?

I only use one element and no physical because I can increase it with just one curse, instead of having to use 3 to do the same thing. Yes the elemental damage does apply but having a 1 handed weapon will be roughly 2 thirds of the overkill burn which is not enough in some situations.

I think you might have confused me with another poster. The other poster mentioned using Heavy Strike as his/her main attack, not me. There is only fire damage (a single elemental damage) which can be boosted by flammability.

As for using a single handed doryani catalyst, a perfect rolled doryani can hit max of 218 physical damage.
With 110% roll for increased elemental damage and 100% conversion to fire, it is 218 * (100 + 110)/100 = 457.8 (max)
A perect rolled Koams P can hit max of 524 damage.

Not too shabby for our scenario. Plus 1% leech. You can use a shield as well for more life, resists and defence.

And dual welding doryanis?

Using the perfect rolled doryani as an example again,

Damage from dual Doryanis = 218 * (100 + 220 + 20 bonus from dual welding since we are talking about initial physical damage )/100 = 741.2 (max)

Plus you get some block from dual welding. And 2% leech. Plus you can hit more often with the doryanis (although not that critical) and dual weld attack speed bonus. Overall looking quite good.

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solidghost wrote:

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Killertortilla wrote:

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solidghost wrote:

Not too sure what you mean by one element but using molten strike (60%) + aof (50%), all (max 100%) of your physical damage is converted to fire. Elemental damage bonus will apply to all the fire damage (that was converted from physcial) right?

I only use one element and no physical because I can increase it with just one curse, instead of having to use 3 to do the same thing. Yes the elemental damage does apply but having a 1 handed weapon will be roughly 2 thirds of the overkill burn which is not enough in some situations.

I think you might have confused me with another poster. The other poster mentioned using Heavy Strike as his/her main attack, not me. There is only fire damage (a single elemental damage) which can be boosted by flammability.

As for using a single handed doryani catalyst, a perfect rolled doryani can hit max of 218 physical damage.
With 110% roll for increased elemental damage and 100% conversion to fire, it is 218 * (100 + 110)/100 = 457.8 (max)
A perect rolled Koams P can hit max of 524 damage.

Not too shabby for our scenario. Plus 1% leech. You can use a shield as well for more life, resists and defence.

And dual welding doryanis?

Using the perfect rolled doryani as an example again,

Damage from dual Doryanis = 218 * (100 + 220 + 20 bonus from dual welding since we are talking about initial physical damage )/100 = 741.2 (max)

Plus you get some block from dual welding. And 2% leech. Plus you can hit more often with the doryanis (although not that critical) and dual weld attack speed bonus. Overall looking quite good.

This would be good for dps but that's not important to this build.

Ok so I have just realised I have been thinking of a different one handed unqiue, you are all completely correct Doryani's would be very good. The one I was thinking of was Dyaedus infernal axe. Silly me.

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Killertortilla wrote:

Ok so I have just realised I have been thinking of a different one handed unqiue, you are all completely correct Doryani's would be very good. The one I was thinking of was Dyaedus infernal axe. Silly me.

No Killertortilla, you are correct. After some calculations, even a dual Doryani is not as good as a double handed high physical damage weapon. I will get back with more in a short while.

Would Oro's Sacrifice be a better option than Koam's for this build?

The OP is actually correct. A high physical damage weapon is better for the overkill effect, especially since you don't really care about the attack speed in this build.

Take for example my initial assumptions:
As for using a single handed doryani catalyst, a perfect rolled doryani can hit once for max of 218 physical damage. With 110% roll for increased elemental damage and 100% conversion to fire, it is

218 * (100 + 110)/100 = 457.8 (max)

A perect rolled Koams P can hit once = 524 damage (max).

BUT how about the rest of the damage nodes we have??

So:
Single perfect doryanis with 300% increased damage nodes (elemental or physical)
218 * (100 + 410)/100 = 1111.8 (max)

Perfect Kaoms P with 300% increased damage nodes (elemental and physical)
We remove the fire portion for easy calculation
486 * (100 + 300)/100 = 1944 + whatever fire portion of KP (max)

So, yes a high physcial (low attack speed) weapon like the Koams' P is certainly better for the overkill effect.

And dual welding doryanis?

This is my inital calculations:
Using the perfect rolled doryani as an example again,

Damage from dual Doryanis = 218 * (100 + 220 + 20 bonus from dual welding since we are talking about initial physical damage )/100 = 741.2 (max)

A perect rolled Koams P can hit once = 524 damage (max).

Plus you get some block from dual welding. And 2% leech. Plus you can hit more often with the doryanis (although not that critical) and dual weld attack speed bonus. Overall looking quite good.

BUT how about the rest of the damage nodes we have??

Two perfect doryanis with 300% increased damage nodes (elemental or physical)
218 * (100 + 550)/100 = 1417 (max)

The 550 value is from 110 (elemental damage from dorynai) + 110 (elemental damage from another doryani) + 300 from nodes + 20 from dual weld bonus

Perfect Kaoms P with 300% increased damage nodes (elemental and physical)
We remove the fire portion for easy calculation
486 * (100 + 300)/100 = 1944 + whatever fire portion of KP (max)

With added fire damage gem and melee physical damage gem (because they stack better with the high physical damage of the KP), the difference will be even bigger. Yes, the HoA will slightly breach the gap but overall, I think I doubt twin doryanis can beat a high physical weapon.

As I mentioned in my previous post, 2-handed weapons do indeed win out if you have a lot of increased damage. My point was, if you have only 200% or less, dual-wielding Doryani's is much closer, even if you disregard attack speed (only about 15% less damage). Also bear in mind that a lot of the increased damage you end up if you have a Primacy is going to be physical, while the lion's share with dual Doryani's will be elemental and fire. This isn't all that relevant for each hit, but the elemental damage will also increase the intensity of the burns considerably, at least by a factor of 2.

Also, your math is wrong with the dual wield. Dual wielding is a 20% more physical damage bonus, not increased.

imo the same combo (herald of ash+ele prolif) would work a lot better with bear trap