Trade Hate: Which one takes more skill?

You dont seem to get that some of us want GGG to rather fix those problems than tweaking and working on a SFL. ;)

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LSN wrote:

You dont seem to get that some of us want GGG to rather fix those problems than tweaking and working on a SFL. ;)

No, I do get that and I am ok with that.

Thats quite reasonable. That doesnt mean I cant want a SFL at some point though..

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LSN wrote:

You dont seem to get that some of us want GGG to rather fix those problems than tweaking and working on a SFL. ;)

Of course you don't because you don't want a SFL. However some players would rather see this type of league before certain other updates. Just because you personally don't care for it doesn't make it a waste of time.

I think trading is a waste of time, that's why I don't do it, doesn't mean you can't or that I would want to remove it for other players that enjoy it.

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LSN wrote:

You dont seem to get that some of us want GGG to rather fix those problems than tweaking and working on a SFL. ;)

Because that's going to happen.....

Self Found League (and I mean permenent, like Hardcore or Standard) just makes sense. Up the drop rates a little to compensate (please for the love of GGG) and cut trade capabilities. Compared to everything else, that's gotta be a breeze to do (bar there being a couple of extra leagues, but that's mostly just hardware/maintenance) and it would cool a hell of a lot of tempers. People on trade can trade, people in SFL would make things a little harder for themselves but at least we'd have slightly higher drops to compensate. Everybody wins.

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AnotherJuan wrote:

Self Found League (and I mean permenent, like Hardcore or Standard) just makes sense. Up the drop rates a little to compensate (please for the love of GGG) and cut trade capabilities. Compared to everything else, that's gotta be a breeze to do (bar there being a couple of extra leagues, but that's mostly just hardware/maintenance) and it would cool a hell of a lot of tempers. People on trade can trade, people in SFL would make things a little harder for themselves but at least we'd have slightly higher drops to compensate. Everybody wins.

Except the flippers who lose some of the people they spend all their time ripping off lol.

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MierenEronaile wrote:

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AnotherJuan wrote:

Self Found League (and I mean permenent, like Hardcore or Standard) just makes sense. Up the drop rates a little to compensate (please for the love of GGG) and cut trade capabilities. Compared to everything else, that's gotta be a breeze to do (bar there being a couple of extra leagues, but that's mostly just hardware/maintenance) and it would cool a hell of a lot of tempers. People on trade can trade, people in SFL would make things a little harder for themselves but at least we'd have slightly higher drops to compensate. Everybody wins.

Except the flippers who lose some of the people they spend all their time ripping off lol.

Yeah, but who wants rich get richer, right? I mean look what that did to the world, Wraeclast has enough problems without a ******* economic recession...

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AnotherJuan wrote:

Self Found League (and I mean permenent, like Hardcore or Standard) just makes sense. Up the drop rates a little to compensate (please for the love of GGG) and cut trade capabilities. Compared to everything else, that's gotta be a breeze to do (bar there being a couple of extra leagues, but that's mostly just hardware/maintenance) and it would cool a hell of a lot of tempers. People on trade can trade, people in SFL would make things a little harder for themselves but at least we'd have slightly higher drops to compensate. Everybody wins.

No. Everybody loses. Read my previous posts on the matter to understand why (since I'm guessing by the way this one is written that you have not).

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

That is factually not the case. People across the forums and all the SFL comments argue about every facet about how SFL would work:

Can you trade with friends?
Can you party with friends?
How would loot be distributed in parties?
Should drop rates be adjusted?
Should characters on the same account still share a stash?
Should crafting be altered to be more amenable to SF play?

And so, and so forth... and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Most of them haven't even accounted for the next thing would beg for afterward: races.

Sorry, but it's simply not in this game's interest to go down this road. People can play SF through self-imposed rules and discipline. This has the added benefit that if they ever get tired of this style, they can simply rejoin the rest of the community. There is nothing forcing them to engage in trade right now if they wanted to play SF without adjusting drops/crafting anyway, so there is no point in making a whole league for it.

Simple fact is this: GGG could get a lot more done with their time and resources by not devoting them to a SFL.

Hey Albino, this post?

Sorry, didn't read through all 17 pages. Also, disagree completely. No offense.
The game's already instanced, even towns and chat channels, so splitting the player base makes no difference.

In response to your questions:

Can you trade with friends? - No
Can you party with friends? - Sure
How would loot be distributed in parties? - Drop per player, unless that's too complicated for some reason(it's in the spirit of self-found, and easy player-mechanically)
Should drop rates be adjusted? - Yes
Should characters on the same account still share a stash? - Within the same League, Yes
Should crafting be altered to be more amenable to SF play? - Probably do this through increased crafting drop rate. Keep the core game mechanics as identical as possible for ease of maintenance, whereas drop rate just means giving players free IIQ/IIF.

I'm not looking to make an "I'm the most hardcore League" - as you say you can do that already. There's no point. I'm looking to have a way to play that's vaguely balanced for self-found without throwing off the economy in the trading League. "Just split them" makes sense. There are a few complications, but they're not as big a deal as you make out. And I have no idea, from this post, how "Everybody loses" - unless the game is "Don't update POE" and the whole of humanity's on one team. It's a very specific game.

EDIT: I'm a pragmatist. This isn't an idealism thing. The game is clearly balanced around trading and for a lot of people that's an important part of the game. You can't boost drops without affecting that. So split Leagues and increase drops for those who don't want to trade. I'd love them to just boost drops but believe it or not, I'm thinking of the traders here and the game as GGG want it to be played (as it is). But with different Leagues there's no reason to punish non-traders to achieve that. And there's no point trying to force non-traders to trade just to achieve an ideal that they wont enjoy - that's not what games are about.

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AnotherJuan wrote:

Hey Albino, this post?

Sorry, didn't read through all 17 pages. Also, disagree completely. No offense.
The game's already instanced, even towns and chat channels, so splitting the player base makes no difference.

In response to your questions:

Can you trade with friends? - No
Can you party with friends? - Sure
How would loot be distributed in parties? - Drop per player, unless that's too complicated for some reason(it's in the spirit of self-found, and easy player-mechanically)
Should drop rates be adjusted? - Yes
Should characters on the same account still share a stash? - Within the same League, Yes
Should crafting be altered to be more amenable to SF play? - Probably do this through increased crafting drop rate. Keep the core game mechanics as identical as possible for ease of maintenance, whereas drop rate just means giving players free IIQ/IIF.

I'm not looking to make an "I'm the most hardcore League" - as you say you can do that already. There's no point. I'm looking to have a way to play that's vaguely balanced for self-found without throwing off the economy in the trading League. "Just split them" makes sense. There are a few complications, but they're not as big a deal as you make out. And I have no idea, from this post, how "Everybody loses" - unless the game is "Don't update POE" and the whole of humanity's on one team. It's a very specific game.

EDIT: I'm a pragmatist. This isn't an idealism thing. The game is clearly balanced around trading and for a lot of people that's an important part of the game. You can't boost drops without affecting that. So split Leagues and increase drops for those who don't want to trade. I'd love them to just boost drops but believe it or not, I'm thinking of the traders here and the game as GGG want it to be played (as it is). But with different Leagues there's no reason to punish non-traders to achieve that. And there's no point trying to force non-traders to trade just to achieve an ideal that they wont enjoy - that's not what games are about.

Regarding the italicized portion, I wasn't asking for any one person's opinion. I was stating that they are facets of the argument that pro-SF players argue over--that they can't agree amonst each other about.

As for the bold portion, this was addressed by several other people already, but if you buff the drops for SF players and not the other players, you run into trouble balancing them in any meaningful way without disrupting the vision of what the game is intended to be. This is why everyone loses if GGG pursues this pointless course of action.

Also, splitting the player base is not talking about distribution among instances; it's distribution among leagues. Anyone can change instances within the same league, but you (that particular character) can't just change leagues on a whim. You missed the point here.