Why is Trading so Hated?

I do like trading, however, the amount of wealth that is 'required' to run high level maps is out of tune, especially as a solo player. I always put more currency into maps then my gear in the end. I don't mind having to spend something, but sometimes you can spend more then 10~20 chaos on a single map, although since the removal from the maze mod it became significantly less, but it still too much out of tune.

Lately I don't even bother using my hard farmed chaos on maps anymore. I simply just run them blue with 40% pack size or something. I saved more then hundreds and hundreds of chaos this way.

My gripe with trading is that it's REALLY HARD to get gear for the awkward area between graduating piety and lvl 78 maps. Buying and selling in this area, particularly with rares, requires the investment of hours of time that could be much better spent actually playing the game. Shops help, but not by much if you only have an hour or so to play each day.

Trading update. PLEASE.

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HasuKishi wrote:

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H4T3MONG3R wrote:

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HasuKishi wrote:

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Because Chris and team come out with ridiculous qoutes about how the game is about build diversity and killing monsters etc. But balance to the opposite ie. In his lol botw claim about snapshotting "think about all the time wasted into setting this up that should be spent having fun killing monsters" I paraphrased, but they will come out and say that they want people to spend time on trading etc... which is it Chris ? Kill monsters and have fun or waste time?
They want the game to be played a certain way (groups, trading, classes) and people find ways to play differently so ggg randomly go in and change the game to make it harder or impossible not too play the way they want you to.
I don't mind basic trading at all, in fact I enjoy it.
What I don't like is Chris channeling his big brother Jay Wilson and trying to force people to have fun the proper way. It didn't work well for Jay and his game and it won't work out well for poe either.

I'm not quite sure, but these seems like more of a post arguing for snapshotting instead of a post about trading. I'd gladly talk to you about snapshotting on a different thread, but I made this one to discuss trading and why it is hated, or at least seems to be by the forum community. If you do make a thread about it, send me a message and I'll gladly jump into the fray.

And waste time? That's all a matter of opinion my dear sir. His word choice was sloppy yes, that I can agree with.

As for that bolded section:
a) not sure what Jay has to do with this. I had to look up who he was in fact, didn't know Chris had a brother XD.
b) Oh dear your supposed to play a game the way it was intended? Sorry but that seems like a silly thing to argue. But who am I to judge, whatever floats your boat. Could I recommend Dungeons and Dragons to ya? You can take the game and make anything you want out of it, even change the rules! Infinite possibility, I highly suggest it (talking about the pen and paper version, not DDO)

I dont support or dislike snapshotting I have indeed used it, but that is not at all what the statement was about. It is about ggg making statements about why things are the way they are... in this case Chris stated they wanted people to be having fun killing monsters instead of eating time on somthing trivial just to maximize the output of their toon, unfortunately the ggg devs have previously stated that trading for gear is a intended and important time investment bordering on mandatory.
So my point was that if in one instance they claim they want your focus to be monster killing them they should balance drops around monster killing instead of balancing around trading.
2nd.
Knowing Jay Wilson's work was a prerequisite to understanding the joke about comparing he and Chris (They are not really brothers btw).
In the earlier days of Diablo3 Jay would make update post about how some of the things people were doing like MFing breakable chest etc. couldnt possibly be fun and was a waste of time so they were taking that ability out of the game.
Now if somthing is about balancing that's fine with me but just say that don't claim to be worrying about my fun factor so you can try to justify to me why a system is they way it is.
So I enjoy the game, I enjoy taking full advantage of the systems in the game to progress. I trade to an extent, I snapshot my zombies, I run auras etc...
I just wish ggg wouldn't put aspects into the game that contradict eachother and then wonder why players get frustrated.

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SirSid wrote:

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Next i was trading some fusings ... a player purched 80 off me ... then 80 more ... then 80 more. I noticed the character was level 82 i asked him what he was trying to link. Well he was trying to 6 link a fucking lightning coil , and he had destroyed 3 5 links with my fusings he purched in the atempt to get a 6 link. So i said to him " hey man if u are trying to 6 link a coil ... stop when u get a 5 link sell it buy another coil and try again this way u save money and it makes getting a 6 link cheaper " . Well the rude crazy ness started first he said that no 1 would buy a 5 link coil cuz to use a coil u need it to be 6 linked ???????? is he a fucking moron !!!! next he told me that PoE was stupid and he has "wasted" 8 ex tring to 6 link this chest and that he was quiting Poe. I told him that any decent item 6 linked is worth about 10 ex as a minnimum cuz it takes about that much to 6 link


So lets break down what this idiot was doing . First off he was trying to copy a build from the fourm , nothing wrong with that , but he was trying to get the GG gear the fourm build player had and some how could not make it work with anything less ( in his mind ) . Secound he was totaly out to lunch about the coast that doing this would be so he set himself up for a let down before he ever started . Third he was he was handicaping himself with not trying to reach his goal in a smart way insted he was going full retard in a vain atempt to get a GG item cuz he thoguht ( i can't progress any more till i have a 6 link ) I mean what can i say to a person like this ?? i tryed to help him but Noooooo it's his hard way or nothing. I hope he quits and never comes back.

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This little story nicely illustrates several things broken in this game...

Some player is just trying to make the game fun to play, and is forced to use a 'crafting' system which isn't really crafting at all, but a form of crude lottery (buy enough tickets, and you just might win!). Or, he could use a broken trading system which requires popping out of game to awkward forum-indexing websites and hope you might be able to find a relevant listing for somebody who happens to be online at the same time and ready to trade.

While trying to get this broken and frustrating system to work, player gets called a moron and and idiot, his play-style is mocked, and it's suggested player should just quit. WTF?

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SirSid wrote:

" hey man if u are trying to 6 link a coil ... stop when u get a 5 link sell it buy another coil and try again this way u save money and it makes getting a 6 link cheaper "

How is this not considered broken? Why can't we just have a crafting system that isn't random, allowing a player to actually craft an awesome item without having to go through such gyrations? And an in-game asynchronous trading mechanism?

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AcrylicHercules wrote:

This little story nicely illustrates several things broken in this game...

Some player is just trying to make the game fun to play, and is forced to use a 'crafting' system which isn't really crafting at all, but a form of crude lottery (buy enough tickets, and you just might win!). Or, he could use a broken trading system which requires popping out of game to awkward forum-indexing websites and hope you might be able to find a relevant listing for somebody who happens to be online at the same time and ready to trade.

While trying to get this broken and frustrating system to work, player gets called a moron and and idiot, his play-style is mocked, and it's suggested player should just quit. WTF?

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SirSid wrote:

" hey man if u are trying to 6 link a coil ... stop when u get a 5 link sell it buy another coil and try again this way u save money and it makes getting a 6 link cheaper "

How is this not considered broken? Why can't we just have a crafting system that isn't random, allowing a player to actually craft an awesome item without having to go through such gyrations? And an in-game asynchronous trading mechanism?

Well u are proving the point im making thare bud.

Thare is NO REASON AT ALL why this player is forced to do this . He's not forced to at any time for any reason HE CHOSE TO DO THIS , and he chose to do it in a poor way. He set himself up for failer when succses was much simpler.


Why is it broken ? it's RNG in a game that is RNG .... it's a ARPG not a MMO.


If he could craft items in the way u want then "power creep" would be out of control , thare would be no trading at that point . no build diversity , no curency sinks , no chance to get "lucky" , all the things that make ARGP's ARPG's would be removed if thare was a crafting system that u are pointing towards. It would becoem a MMO whare the only thing u can invest is time , no other alternatives and evrey 1 is going for the same goal ( getting the same gear evre 1 elce has )



Im not talking out my ass hear. I understand how game economics work ( also my wife is a econmicist ) But she just lol when she sees some of the things that happen in PoE ( dew to the miss understandings of players )


She and I play EvE online , a game that has what people want in PoE . A complicated dynamic economy that is 100 % controled by the players . The market system in EvE online makes AH systems look like a babys toy ( cuz they are ) World of warcraft "crafting" is a bad joke compared to how building items in EvE works , power creep is handeled with a very complicated sytem of wealth destruction ( also 100 % controled by the players )


if PoE had a system like this the game would destroy itself in 6 mounths tops . thare is no "out " for wealth in PoE in a few mounths evrey 1 would have what they need , a few more evrey 1 would have what they want. No player would have a goal any more , all content would be trivilized players would get board and leave.


I know what u want , a system whare u get out what u put in in a static reliable way. wanting this is not a bad thing i understand whare u are comeing from Sir. However u must try to understand that in a game based around itemization makeing items from base curency in a reliable way is not only risky for the health of the game but almost a garentyed death sentence.

I'll tell you why I hate trading. I hate it because most of my friends who I have invited to play this game got scammed by other more experienced players into selling/buying worthless items to/from them for fortunes.

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Jarenga wrote:

I'll tell you why I hate trading. I hate it because most of my friends who I have invited to play this game got scammed by other more experienced players into selling/buying worthless items to/from them for fortunes.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Guess they never got to the twice eh. That isn't trading fault, that's the fault of what people do in economics. Don't blame the whole system because some people abuse it.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Thing with me is... I found out long ago... it's far more fun to want something than it is to have it.

Shags said something I can agree with, for once.

Not that 'having it' is bad, it's still good.

But I'll use an example from my showcase, I'd take that moment Taryn's dropped 4000 hours too late over buying it when it was wanted.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Thing with me is... I found out long ago... it's far more fun to want something than it is to have it.

Shags said something I can agree with, for once.

Not that 'having it' is bad, it's still good.

But I'll use an example from my showcase, I'd take that moment Taryn's dropped 4000 hours too late over buying it when it was wanted.

Thatès a very good point.

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SirSid wrote:

Last night i think this really jumped out at me and hit me in the face .. twice. First off i was in a party with my RM marader character , 1 of the players ( i later found out was a dimond suporter ) started to rage that i had a OP build cuz i use a khoams heart chest .... well i don't use a khomas heart chest . So i explaned to him that not only do u not need a khoms to make a build like this do alot of damage but that running a koams had a few draw backs for the build . Well the fight was on , acording to him RF maraders coast 100 + ex to make work ( even though this paticular RF Marader im running has about a total of 10 EX worth of gear ( including a legacy shild ) The guy had his mind made up thare was no changing it.

It's a work of art. You managed to write Kaom's four times, all different, and none right.

Amazing.

+1