Why Path of Exile cannot be a hardcore game while desync exists

First of, what is a hardcore game?

A hardcore game would provide a challenge to players, and reward good play, that is, if you play perfectly you will never die, and you will complete the game. If you make a mistake, you will be punished. In a sense, PoE falls under that definition, but not quite.

With desync, you never know where exactly you are, you have a rough estimate, the same is with monsters. The problem arises when you need to make decisions where to position yourself in regards to monsters, so as not to die. If you're ranged, you will kite the monsters, if they're far from you, you don't need to move, if they're getting close to you, you run back, attack, and run back again, repeating until the monster dies. With desync, the monster you're kiting can be far away from you, on your screen, but in reality might be close enough to you on the server, close enough to attack, even. That creates an issue, because, if for example the monster crits you and you die, then was the death caused by your mistake, or was the fault in bad information that you had to base your decision on? You knew the monster would get to you in about 3 seconds, you had time to attack a few times before starting to kite, and you made that decision, and that wouldn't be a mistake, except you died.

Another example would be skillshots, and monster's ranged attacks. You can dodge them, but with not knowing exactly where you are, and also moving faster on your client than on the server, you can still get hit by them, even if you dodge them.

The core issue of desync is, that you have faulty information, and you need to make decisions based on bad information, leading, in extreme cases, to deaths that were not caused by your mistakes, but by the faulty information you had.

And that is exactly why Path of Exile cannot be a hardcore game while desync exists: by the given definition, yes, it does provide a challenge to players, and does reward good play, but even if you play perfectly, you can die.

In an ideal scenario, if you played perfectly, you would get to lvl 100 without any deaths, that is not to say that that doesn't happen, but how many of those that did get there, never used an escape mechanism when faced with desync, like logging out when they would have died because of desync.

Further clarifications:

-This post is not about why desync is bad, nor does it give any solutions, it is however an explanation as to why the so called, hardcore game, cannot actually be hardcore.

-Yes, it is possible to adapt to desync temporarily, spamming /oos and never attacking/using skils without holding shift.

-Even if it's possible to adapt in a way, it is not a solution to the core problem.

-For those who didn't even bother reading: this is not a thread about removing desync in any form, nor is it a QQ thread about dying to desync, if you feel like "get good" is a proper response then please, refrain from posting.

What I would like is a discussion about this topic, as I personally don't feel like GGG promoting this game as a hardcore game is a fitting description.

I never played hardcore league (besides races) because of this problem

Desync is the reason for never rolling melee in hardcore.

Wraeclast hates me enough without the almighty RNGesus shitting on me too.

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I love HC and races. Even with desync.

Desync is not an issue for me. I dont even need to use AHK. Races are more fun with desync because without it Rukuku wouldnt have killed me when he did and not dying takes the fun out of the game. And porting into a mob and still making it out alive is a thrill i dont want to miss.

Please keep desync. The game will be a cakewalk if desync was removed.

[Removed by Support] you are even defending desync and hype it like its the best feature in poe, poe has its problems but dont make them look like they are good or wanted

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StormHunter wrote:

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I love HC and races. Even with desync.

Desync is not an issue for me. I dont even need to use AHK. Races are more fun with desync because without it Rukuku wouldnt have killed me when he did and not dying takes the fun out of the game. And porting into a mob and still making it out alive is a thrill i dont want to miss.

Please keep desync. The game will be a cakewalk if desync was removed.

[Removed by Support]

[Removed by Support] He is like villain of POE forums, no offence Dirk :)

Understanding what desync is will help you deal with it. You don't seem to. The rubberbanding that you're complaining about isn't desync. You can't fix desync with a /oos command... only force a resync with it. Most players are using /oos completely wrong. They use it when they know that they're out of sync. Too late.

The problems of desync show up when a player is told by his client that he can enter a command (like attack that monster) and the server is in a state where he can't (the monster is in another room). Once you realize that you've done this... too late to hit /oos. You need to hit /oos before you enter the command.

Until you understand what desync is, most of the actions that you take to combat it actually can do more harm than good.

Once you understand it, you don't even really notice it's effects much at all. I've given up trying to tell people this, because they usually get all belligerent. I really wish there wasn't desync. I would prefer a stand alone client that let me play the game on my own, run by my own computer. It sucks not to be able to play the way I would like, and it must suck not to be able to play the game the way you like too.

I really don't see how "hardcore" and this relate though. Hardcore is just a hype term used to get people excited about a game. It has no meaning.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Understanding what desync is will help you deal with it. You don't seem to. The rubberbanding that you're complaining about isn't desync. You can't fix desync with a /oos command... only force a resync with it. Most players are using /oos completely wrong. They use it when they know that they're out of sync. Too late.

I do understand what desync is, and that's the point, you are constantly descyned, and /oos is just a temporary fix that lasts for a second. That's also the reason why I spam /oos every 10-15 seconds even when I don't feel desynced, just in case.

Hardcore is a subjective definition. It means something different to everyone.

Screw using /oos that often though. Waste of time.

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visiON123 wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Understanding what desync is will help you deal with it. You don't seem to. The rubberbanding that you're complaining about isn't desync. You can't fix desync with a /oos command... only force a resync with it. Most players are using /oos completely wrong. They use it when they know that they're out of sync. Too late.

I do understand what desync is, and that's the point, you are constantly descyned, and /oos is just a temporary fix that lasts for a second. That's also the reason why I spam /oos every 10-15 seconds even when I don't feel desynced, just in case.

Einstein once said something to the effect of "The greatest barrier to learning and understanding something is the presumption that you already understand it." Live by that.

If you're using /oos like that, you don't understand what you're doing and you're not going to have a good time. Instead, try slowing down. Pause a second or two after each encounter. Look over the loot from the last one. Open your inventory and see if there's something you can do. Just don't rush into the next encounter unprepared. Keep your play pace at the same level that the game will tolerate and you wont be bothered by desync. Try to force a faster pace, by spamming /oos for example, and you're going to have a terrible time.