Chaos Inoculation and the Incandescent Heart.

"

Xikorut wrote:

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

Comparing the numbers with shavronne is kind of weird. You can get more than 400 flat ES when you compare the price of shavronne with comparable options. And when you do that, CI gets a MUCH bigger pool to take that damage from and can become much tankier from a "hp" pool standpoint.

You're right, you can get about 430ish ES more. There are literally 7 chests on XYZ with 900+ ES, and all three that are over 930 are mirror only. As for the price, a mirror actually costs more than what it would take to get a 6L Shav's at this point. 89 ex for a 6L Shav's or 65 and a lottery versus 90 ex for a mirror then a fee to worry about.

If you are talking about a 930 ES chest, a 305 int build, and literally every ES node outside of the bottom 6% nodes of the Scion (taking the 6-12-6 trio), you get 2320ish more ES from the chest and 12% more from all other sources. So you are right that I underestimated the actual numbers. But if I had the choice between 12000 ES with Low Life and 17000 without, I'd take the 12000. You can already facetank about anything at 12000. The extra 5000 is an insurance policy that is on top of the Vaal Discipline insurance policy. Unfortunately, the second layer will cost you can easier form of stun immunity and a rather hefty amount of potential damage. If you're talking about an attack based build, you're losing a large amount of attack speed from BR as well.

As it is, Low Life has a myriad of good options... Full Life has next to none. On top of this, CI only gets a relatively small increase in power outside of the chest slot. Nerfing Shav's helped widen the gap on the chest, but the problem still lies in the ability to get a massive enough pool in either case, with Shav's enabling more powerful options.

E: Did not mean to press enter :D

Oh, I don't disagree that CI is not as good as it used to be.
I do find those numbers VERY interesting though. Is 12,000 really possible with shavronne? Because thats a number that used to be 'high' in CB. I assume its missing something with that sort of buffer. I was under the impression about 7k was where Shavronne was topping out, maybe 9k.

Those numbers you came up with are very interesting though. On a sidenote, for vaal discipline, does anyone know if this applies the ES instantly (so you get that 500/whatever ES), or is it added to your 'total ES' and then you have to wait for regeneration/leech before it actually applies?

It works as you would think. Your pool is larger, but you still have to regenerate it. Regardless, it's rather potent.

As for the values... A dude already had 17k ES without Vaal Disc on, so I based that as my "top end" for ES. You can almost assuredly get more if you tried, as I did go overboard with the number of ES nodes. My reasoning afterward is that if you tried the exact same build while dropping CI and putting on a Shav's, you shouldn't lose more than 5k ES. This is probably wrong, but my high end is also wrong, so whatever.

As for the potential ES of Shav's, no one is actually going to put in the effort to get so much ES; there is no point when you can already facetank Utzeri and outleech the damage she deals before her next attack. You don't see people picking up literally every ES node like I nearly did, it's unnecessary.

I also ran the numbers on the ES possibilities with gear that will probably never exist. With only Inner Force, a Shav's build can get over 11k ES without any jewelry and only 300 int, both of which will push it a fair bit furher. With all of the aura nodes away from the Marauder, 12000 ES is possible. With a perfect ES chest and the same situation, I was able to get a little over 18k ES for CI. It means that I wasn't far off on my estimation... But it also means that you can get way more ES than you really need. I took 27 ES nodes outside of CI (not including the nodes to connect) to create these numbers, but I doubt anyone will ever take them all (I missed Unnatural Calm, but even in the most extreme case this was less than 500 more ES).

All this has really taught me that the only real reason to go CI is if you want to mix/max on the defensive side, even though it is far from necessary or efficient. There's a reason everyone fights Utzeri with either a massive pool of life or goes Low Life... You don't need 17k to tank her and you'll be slower for it if you try. This game doesn't reward going tanky past a certain point, and Shav's is able to reach that point.

What I'm truly sad to say is that these comparisons are something I never expected I would have ever had to make back in CB. ES and Life weren't synonyms. I never would have been able to predict GGG to put such effort into making it like this. Really, the only difference between the two at this point is the ability to use flasks (Vaal Discipline practically is one), LGOH, and the need to get keystones. We're actually having a discussion about the facetanking capabilities of a defense that was explicitly weak at facetanking. That fact alone makes me sad to look at what ES has become and why its so overshadowed now.

To the OP: I kind of agree with the premise I guess, ES does have too many issues as a build and needs to be more accessible

However I don't think it's a good idea to ever buff a unique because of an underlying issue with the core mechanic in question.

"

Xikorut wrote:

It works as you would think. Your pool is larger, but you still have to regenerate it. Regardless, it's rather potent.

As for the values... A dude already had 17k ES without Vaal Disc on, so I based that as my "top end" for ES. You can almost assuredly get more if you tried, as I did go overboard with the number of ES nodes. My reasoning afterward is that if you tried the exact same build while dropping CI and putting on a Shav's, you shouldn't lose more than 5k ES. This is probably wrong, but my high end is also wrong, so whatever.

As for the potential ES of Shav's, no one is actually going to put in the effort to get so much ES; there is no point when you can already facetank Utzeri and outleech the damage she deals before her next attack. You don't see people picking up literally every ES node like I nearly did, it's unnecessary.

I also ran the numbers on the ES possibilities with gear that will probably never exist. With only Inner Force, a Shav's build can get over 11k ES without any jewelry and only 300 int, both of which will push it a fair bit furher. With all of the aura nodes away from the Marauder, 12000 ES is possible. With a perfect ES chest and the same situation, I was able to get a little over 18k ES for CI. It means that I wasn't far off on my estimation... But it also means that you can get way more ES than you really need. I took 27 ES nodes outside of CI (not including the nodes to connect) to create these numbers, but I doubt anyone will ever take them all (I missed Unnatural Calm, but even in the most extreme case this was less than 500 more ES).

All this has really taught me that the only real reason to go CI is if you want to mix/max on the defensive side, even though it is far from necessary or efficient. There's a reason everyone fights Utzeri with either a massive pool of life or goes Low Life... You don't need 17k to tank her and you'll be slower for it if you try. This game doesn't reward going tanky past a certain point, and Shav's is able to reach that point.

What I'm truly sad to say is that these comparisons are something I never expected I would have ever had to make back in CB. ES and Life weren't synonyms. I never would have been able to predict GGG to put such effort into making it like this. Really, the only difference between the two at this point is the ability to use flasks (Vaal Discipline practically is one), LGOH, and the need to get keystones. We're actually having a discussion about the facetanking capabilities of a defense that was explicitly weak at facetanking. That fact alone makes me sad to look at what ES has become and why its so overshadowed now.

Well this brings up another potential discussion. I get the feeling that the Shavronne would still win, but whats the sort of 'good' ES level. If we were say to take the 12k amount for CI, and then use that to add dps nodes instead of the additional ES and see how much damage 'bonus' you got, could you even get close to competing?

Gentlemen, keep in mind, that shavs will get a hit with the snapshot fix. I said this before, they wont dumb it to the ground, but in its current state with the current auras it is too strong.

Also, i think the "not using pot" thing is not valid. Most good life builds have arround 5,5-6k life and running arround with 2 Seethings, which is actually 2,4k HP instant. So they are ending with 8k HP, if they are fast in using the pots. Reaching 8k HP with ES gear is not that hard, to be honest.

Some people here also dont see the other advantages that CI has:
Its not only that you get 100% Chaos Res, you also free _ALL_ your gear slots from life! For this previlege you have to sacrifice 1 slot (helm, ring or boots) for anti-freeze and 1 slot for antistun (boots, amu or unwavering in passive). If you sacrifice the ring slot by using frags, its not even a disadvantage, since dreamfrags gives you 1 res and a good bulk of mana/manaregen.

I think thats not so bad.

Fragment is not needed, as a Melee CI u should be able to one, two hit everything with ease
If you get frozen you hit a flask and the mob is dead
Otherwise u r ranged and evem if you get frozen you aren't in danger

I've a Flicker CI which is running vul damage palace maps w/o a problem, with just 4k es

"

Xikorut wrote:

Sure, you take 25% less elemental damage, but you lost over 25% of your energy shield 

You are quite, quite far from loosing 25% unless you have a 1000+ES chest ( which is the top of the top, and should be more powerful considering how rare/expensive it is ).

"

Xikorut wrote:

After the changes to gloves/boots/helms not being able to roll high flat values anymore

what changes ? when ? I haven't seen such a change recently.



CI imho needs some adjustments, but I hope that it won't just be couple of OP items that will be over powered with it, if it needs changes, it's the keystone/CI in its whole that need some work, not just an item.

"

Xikorus wrote:

What I'm truly sad to say is that these comparisons are something I never expected I would have ever had to make back in CB. ES and Life weren't synonyms. I never would have been able to predict GGG to put such effort into making it like this. Really, the only difference between the two at this point is the ability to use flasks (Vaal Discipline practically is one), LGOH, and the need to get keystones. We're actually having a discussion about the facetanking capabilities of a defense that was explicitly weak at facetanking. That fact alone makes me sad to look at what ES has become and why its so overshadowed now.

I joined in OB, so I haven't played those old scenario, but I would like to have more differences between CI and life ...

I was quite satisfied to get to 70 in invasion ( before some invader's nerfs ) with a build relying on ES recovery as a main defence, pure kiting build, it was quite fun. But it's obviously not what people do now obviously.

"

Fruz wrote:

CI imho needs some adjustments, but I hope that it won't just be couple of OP items that will be over powered with it, if it needs changes, it's the keystone/CI in its whole that need some work, not just an item.

Well, CI is EXACTLY about turning ES into life. The problem is, the only way to efficiently use ES means removing your life (either with CI or life reservation with Shavronne). Kiting is dangerous, inefficient, desync-prone and very hard to perform against certain enemies. Vaal Discipline helps, of course, but still i think kiting should NOT be "the only" way to make ES viable.
I think, whole ES mechanics is a bit wrong, as it depletes "hard-to-recover" resource first (ES), life - second. It should be vice versa - life depletes first, ES - second. That would make pure ES (withou any additional items or keystones) far more viable, especially against occasional hard hits. And it gives you a chance to recover ES directly in combat, as long as you dont take enough damage to deplete your life.

Thank you, for the very informative post, Valley. I love the design of Incandescent Heart, especially the light radius, but I just can't get over what the dev's did with the design...They kind of took it from being really good for Ci to being useless for everyone... Physical Leech on a chest that's main promotion is it's ability to reduce elemental damage through a chaos conversion is ridiculous, and that only goes double for the life as the chest is obviously geared towards having 1/1 life. All of this would be, albeit begrudgingly, acceptable if they had just went with the ES chest over the AR/ES one, that's the final nail in the coffin for the hopes of a strong Chaos Inoc item. However, it's still quite an intriguing item and with the right build I'm sure it has a BiS spot waiting for it. SO, as I'm happy to commend you for the great design idea I would be much happier to see the item surface from the dark... corners of niche'ville, and into the realm of the other pantheon power-houses.

"

0versky wrote:

"In my opinion Chaos Inoculation is one of the worst Keystones in the game as it is currently."

Er ????
Besides the "lose the effective of low life (which 99% of your ave Joe cant really do ), you casually left out the ability to stack twice as much of the base pool ? All the effective node is irrelevant if you have a base pool twice as their. MoM/EB build, how much life can they reach with that 1.42/1.67 (Cloak ) effective hp ? How much life can a Kaom's build reach ? How much life can an Acro/Phase Acro char reach with that 1.67/1.42 ehp ? Given that CI has an inherent twice the pool, and still more than a life build with all that ehp modifier, the downsides are justified.

The downsides aren't justified, the downsides completely eliminate the upsides. If we are talking about Effective Health Modifiers, then we're just going to leave butt-nerfed (FIREDMG?) Kaom's and it's 600 armor out of it when discussing life based. Instead, let's substitute it for a 100+ life, xx%dual-res, and 25%+chaos res chest, Immediately Life wins vs Ci, why? Because Max Resist Nodes are all afloat in the life tree, and +1 or +2% to max resistances is a large amount of effective Hp, it probably even trumps the 25% of elemental damage converted to chaos from incandescent heart. What else is all afloat in the life tree? Armor, yes...very good. What do you get on your chest when you don't get Energy Shield? Armor. Armor= Effective HP (vs physical) ...In conclusion class? Life is prime central for max resists and armor, promising a great deal of increased effective hp in conjunction with passively gained life through levels and natural strength node progression which is about twice as much as you get from what you do when you WASTE OBSCENE AMOUNTS OF AURA-MANA POOL FOR DISCIPLINE to even consider being CI, +4 Max Resists, and larger life% nodes than ES.

You simply can't compare effective health pools from CI to Life while disregarding what life has. I mentioned Armor & Resists..Passive Life Gain Through Levels and Flat Life from Strength, but I forgot to bring up life regeneration (which is prime for life and life only ever since Shav's Rev was packed quite deeply into the much hated legacy anus).. Life regen provides you a constant MORE %life as long as you're taking damage. Also, it's possible to get this number up to 6~11% easily. That comes a tad bit close to 12% more Energy Shield doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, zealot's oath... Is too close to the strength core with yet another past nerf to ES. You wanna know what else Life can do besides stack MORE %LIFE through regen, armor to high hell, and resists to a maximum??? It can actually stack chaos resistance. With 30% top tier chaos res rolls on just three items, you are taking literally no chaos damage anymore, you can even use blood rage at this point and only lose 2.6% of your life per second. If you put on two Amethyst rings and one of them happens to have a decent chaos resist roll, you are effectively at 75% Chaos Resistance that can never be lowered by anything in the game at all ever. At this point... You only take 1% of your life in chaos dmg from blood rage, but even at 30% chaos resist you aren't afraid to jump into poison traps or walk around in The Blacksmith's leap slam zombies. *I can almost out-regen them with -38% c-res on my current flame totem spec. The point I'm trying to make is that the chaos threat is almost negligible and if that's all that CI has going for it besides the visual boast of what that Health Globe fails to express in literal effective health then It's a far cry from on-par with even the most basic of defensive specializes.

AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF... Ci can't use my awesome 20% Seething Hallowed Flasks of Staunching to any great success, which beats the crap out of the ability to "recharge" any day of the week since you can heal 466 of your life up instantly, 3 times in succession, 4times more provided you even feel the need to bring a utility flask. So what's that... 450*3=1350... 1350*4=5600 effective life at your finger tips whenever you need it. Compare that to your granite flasks... 3000 armor 100% increased armor for 5seconds, 2 times in succession, 2times more provided that you need topaz and ruby flask and we will provide an almost obligatory quicksilver flask in this scenario as the last slot. 5*2*2= wow, 20 seconds of *ALMOST* feeling how an armor/life based character does all the time. : ]

You can't even argue damage with me either, Marauder tree and Templar tree have the absolute best Crit Chance Nodes in the game bar-none, even though they're lacking on crit multiplier (only a small amount) on the extra 46% multiplier that the other side of the tree can get... 260% in a 7 passive branching into one handed clusters... That's a little substantial compared to the max point investment (daggers-only) on the other side, giving 200% crit chance. On-top of that, the damage available to players sticking around the life area is just HIGHER!! (see cruel blade/by the blade/wicked blade/DEFT BLADE) Multiplier doesn't mean much if you only have half of the increased damage.

Low-Life remedies the Life-Based necessity by providing us extra auras to benefit our characters by substantial amounts being both defensive and offensive at the same time with a small amount of choice between the 9th or 10th auras... -_ -

Chaos Inoculation remains only to remedy people wanting to take a screenshot of their 30k SnowGlobe with Vaal Discipline, and those who refuse to craft with their currency to put some chaos res on their gear before stepping into the three main areas where chaos dmg is even remotely noticeable...

ONE MORE FUN FACT!
Life based doesn't need to take Ghost Reaver to leech health. (Practically your only form of recovery) yeah yeah, your Ghost Reaver Life Leech has marginally higher rate cap than life based, but good luck leeching life when you're stunned or frozen... Oops, there goes two mandatory gear investments. Hey, at least you get 30% iiR from Eye of Chayula right? Plus you can still evade (*attacks only... evasion needs a buff, too..) Maybe 30% more rare items will help you build up enough money to buy Alpha's or Auxium, *the former being extremely gimping to your SnowGlobe and *the latter being extremely expensive... Of course there's always Dream Fragments... Ahh Dream Fragments...25% Cold Res +20% Max Mana +50% Mana Regen... I honestly hope that enables me to run lv24 Arctic Armor and Mind over Matter, because I just lost a ton of SnowGlobe and damage to make up for the fact that I couldn't just craft an amethyst ring with chaos res, life, dual res, and WED/Life~ManaLeech/FlatPhys...or CRIT!! chance! and! multiplier!... T_T


@Fruz: I agree 100%, I just saw this unique item and thought it was a step in the right direction, then I noticed all of the other parts of it, then I realized that the devs aren't testing these things from every possible angle and in all likelihood are combining incredibly Orb of Regret hungry end-game scenarios akin to the Low-Life builds we're seeing now to decide if it's bad or not for a community that's biting at each other's heels just to get one more exalt towards the only viable end-game build in the game right now. Anyone who plays path of exile long enough eventually discovers it, they know exactly what they need, and everyone EVERYONE knows that it's EXTREMELY over-powered, ESPECIALLY considering what they did to the auras... Back to my point... ALMOST EVERYONE is saying "No over-powered uniques, no more shavs, no more crown, no more volts, no more soul takers, no more!!"

I know as an active player that it's what we say, because we want that shit lol, just to see what it's like... We're jealous when we say it.. What we're really saying is.. Give us more options... Give the economy more over-powered end-game TRASHING uniques to choose from and the hate and limited supply will eventually go down, AND AT THIS POINT. People will have items that can actually BE traded on PAR with the existing over-powered end-game rewards. What would this do.. This would make crafting obsolete right? No one would care about that magnificent Near Top Tier Tri-Res, and Near Perfectly PDR'd, through the blood sweat and tears of eternal exalting/yoloxalting, ES CHEST? My answer is no, but it's up for debate... Maybe you're right about CI itself being adjusted... Who knows.. Personally, I'd enjoy seeing something shut low-life builds up....



@Mortal Kombat3:

I kind of agree that kiting is desync prone, but kiting is fun, it kinda feels good when you have to outplay the enemy with spacial awareness...

However, I don't agree at all with your suggested ES mechanics.. I FIND IT IMMENSELY INTERESTING! but I disagree... Right down to the very concept... Energy SHIELD; the very word implies an outer shell of defense that must be disarmed to get to the, for lack of a better phrase, "Life form" that's inside, in this case a Woman Chained to a Shiny-Red Ball...

Like I said though, I find the mechanic you're describing very interesting, it's like a last resort... an immensely potent burst of adrenaline that keeps you in the fight for a few more breathes, fight or flight!!! BERSERKING!! Yeah, you could call that mechanic Fury... When you're reduced to 0 life you stop regenerating/recovery(from flasks too) and your life bar then becomes restored to 100% as a fury bar ( could be visualized by an even thinner light red line within or around the life globe and would probably not be based 100% on your life, but just as a new parameter altogether)... and this fury bar would deplete rapidly, as if you were punctured and mauled, and it would give you onslaught for the duration, a short burst of movement and attack speed. (fight or flight) Once it reaches zero you die.... I have no idea what the other option would be....

Could be if you...... or you'd have to press your F key before it reached zero but if there were any mobs around you would be prevented from doing so... That seems not convoluted at all. It would probably work similarly to how the mine mechanics do? or maybe just use those proximity mechanics to keep the fight or flight theme initiated... Like.. Your "fury" your "berserk" your.."adrenaline" your..."undying rage"

MY RIGHT ARMS ALOT STRONGER THAN MY LEFT ARM!






..fapfapfapfapfapfpafpapfapfpa

But.. Like your "fury" mechanic could stop depleting once there are no enemies within 100 units of you and your life would start to regen again while the fury's effects disappear. Meaning, to keep yourself from dying and from making this mechanic totally over-powered, you have to kill everything around you in the short duration of your last efforts OR you have to flee like hell!

This would probably alleviate some of the desync hate, or double it, since if you die under this theoretical effect then it would be kinda like dying twice.

It would give us all one more nice mod to roll for, the hard cap values wouldn't have be high either.. or they could be extremely high just to denote the EXTREME situation you would fall under when this effect happens but you could keep the corresponding duration per 100 or 1000 points of fury extremely low to keep it form being abused... It'd be similar to Immortal Call but with an even shorter hard-cap duration of like... 5 seconds. Yeah.. Make the fury bar itself be extremely high (and able to take damage, further lowering the duration quicker than it would if you weren't taking damage) but make it so that you lose all of your defenses ontop of no regen and recovery... could make it so you have no armor, evasion, block, dodge, no immunity to ground effects/stuns/snares/freezes/shocks/burns, AND NO RESISTANCES!

Then animate and voice each character, dropping to their knees coughing up their own lungs, if they survive after the fury duration expires... Slowly they climb back into reality... grateful they didn't suffer cast on death spam.

~Marauder: "-hack hack- I am still not ready, Brother(death)! -hack, followed by grumbling breaths that resemble empowered joy-"

~Ranger: "That'll...-groaning in pain)- That'll be my undoing... -followed by sounds of strain then a sigh of reinvigorated relief-"

~Shadow: "-painful yell-............Guess you can catch a shadow after-all.. -painful chuckle- Ah, that was close. -followed by sarcasm in the form of deep breathes disguised as easy ones-

~Duelist: "-hack hack hack- Ahhhh, Tis but a scratch. -laughter- Wouldn't necessarily call that a square duel, but I'm game for round two, Wraeclast. -followed by hacking-

~Witch: "-screaming from emotion rather than pain- UNBELIEVABLE! -more screams, the adrenaline brought out the heart of the witch as she beats her pain into the ground as hard as her small hands can-....-given up her battle with the floor, sigh, followed by struggled breaths to her feet- Gratitude then, I guess?

~Templar: "-grunt grunt- God saw fit to spare me. -heavy breath, followed by relief- In that case, He must not want to spare this treacherous land.

~Scion: "-pant- HA! To believe...I almost thought I was going to die..-pleasurable moan(twisted)- Never. -followed by a final showing of the character on the inside as she sighs begrudgingly to the fact that she wasn't motivated to finally let it happen-

(for some reason... I feel like this is the Scion's true inner character... considering "matricide" is what brought her to wraeclast in the first place, and that sort of thing usually borders around... well.. suicidal tendency, considering marriage is a union, no? In some form or fashion, even her breath sounds suicidal and uncaring, like she doesn't even know why she's sticking around anymore.. revenge more than likely.)



@GGG:

If you've never reasoned with a begging internet troll before, let me be your first, Please, make this mechanic happen!!! PLEASE!!! I want blood all over my screen when it happens, too. I want the screen to get redder and darker and darker the more my fury duration expires, even darker than Low-Life Veil of the Night without Arcane Vision! That would be awesome...

TL;DR: I have no life.

Back on topic though;

@Cerotodei, if you're running FLICKER! CI! in ANY! VULNERABILITY! map! with 4,000 Energy Shield, then you're probably playing in a non-hardcore league. That's just a simple fact. Flicker=Desync=Death.. when you add vulnerability and 4,000 es... next I suppose you'll tell me that you favorite hat is the Abyssus and that you're actually an ele Flicker strike character that uses Hyaon's Fury to effectively disregard at least the reflect side of vulnerability.

I'm just saying. These are things you don't do in Hardcore because it's an easy way to die and saying that you got up to this point of you doing this stuff without a problem kind of implies that you've never had that problem... this only makes me entitled to call bullshit.
You die at least once on all Flicker Strike characters, it's inevitable, you rush into melee range (half of the time blindly) and hope you didn't just throw yourself to the fishes. Flicker strike as a skill has no forgiveness. Now either you're a hardcore softcore player or you are full of it. I'm leaning towards full of it. Freeze is a concern. Shock is a concern, too. These things can be flasked off, but you usually only have two charges of each so if you're getting chain frozen and shocked, which you should be in any sort of challenging environment for the build you're describing, then you're pretty much screwed.

How many times have you died to Cold-snap sirens? I know from personal experience that I've died quite a bit to them thinking I could just pop a sapphire flask with dispel frozen/chilled and pretend that 85% max cold resist would be enough to stop them from having at me. The truth is that you don't just kill them at melee range, you don't just spam the flask, in this situation you need to be completely or somewhat immune to freeze, or atleast have it be a very short duration, but with CI it's not, so if your flasks are down, you are out, and the flasks DO NOT make you immune to getting frozen right after you unfreeze so what you're saying doesn't add up to me. Link me any ci or lowlife build that doesn't use auxium/fragments/ or howls...

Ci is a dream fragmented. Cold and frozen. It needs an Incandescent Heart to melt the spirit back to the ethereal.

I'm going to do some hardcore number crunches and come up with scientific proof that CI is balls, and I'm going to invite you all to check my math when I'm done.

Missing RF or Pain attunement equivalent for CI casters is another kind of spit on face btw. BR have no chance to counter "MORE" mod for spell power.