Is Molten Strike too powerful as a starter's gem?

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

it makes certain other skills like positively shit.

...which brings us to the classic balance question: to nerf the one, or to buff the other? Tough question; as a result, although I'm leaning "too powerful," I'm not fully confident it's not instead a case of "competition too weak."

But I think what the title was trying to ask is if it was vastly more powerful than alternatives. No ambivalence in the answer to that one.

I pray they don't listen to most of you.

I will not use Molten Strike any more. I tried to use Spectral Throw once. Couldn't stand it. 2H-weapons flying about doesn't do it for me. Neither does the Scion appeal to me aethetically.

What I get from our discussion - for which I thank you all - is that we can play PoE in different ways. I want to play it with as little AoE as possible. If that means I will do worse in races then I will just accept that. I play against my own abilities not against those of my fellow exiles.

So now it is back to cleave/double strike/fire trap (yes - a little bit of AoE, but I never get any trap passives).

Molten strike feels like it's in a good spot.

its a skill that carries you from act 1 normal to act 3 merciless.
this is how a starter skill should work in this game.

it has quite the upside with high damage if you need multiple hits for an opponent but at the same time it often is slowing you down as you have to make sure that the monsters die to the balls or another hit. the delay between the initial hit and the following explosions is that long that a highly geared endgame character might want to not use this skill due to this delayed killing.

i'll post again once my char has reached endgame (currently a2 merc)

When you need to start leech life and mana and monsters gain more resistances, Molten Strike stops to be so powerfull, comparing to physical damage skills.

There is nothing OP in being melee to start with.

It is pretty powerful. It is way better than most skills available at the time, especially for melee.

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iiell wrote:

It is pretty powerful. It is way better than most skills available at the time, especially for melee.

i'd like to have a detailed comparison :)

sweep doesnt count, sweep is garbage.

the fire conversion hurts more than you would initially think.
leech effectiveness is on vaal pact level without a leech gem, keep that in mind.
mana leech on gear is problematic too

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SVD wrote:

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iiell wrote:

It is pretty powerful. It is way better than most skills available at the time, especially for melee.

i'd like to have a detailed comparison :)

sweep doesnt count, sweep is garbage.

the fire conversion hurts more than you would initially think.
leech effectiveness is on vaal pact level without a leech gem, keep that in mind.
mana leech on gear is problematic too

i slapped it together on a glacial hammer build and: LGOH makes up for leech deficiency. however even without it it is OK. there are corrupted items with fire leech, too

mana leech? for skill that cheap? for Dominating Blow i understand but one can easily support this skill on mana alone with just 2% on gear, EASILY

for a invasion starter gem there is currently no better. this might be actually quite amazing with +life on hit claws and multistrike

it is currently the best leveling gem, probably the best mid-game setup (competing with cheeze bond and blameblast) and very potent end game build (point blank+iron grip - both no link! + AOF for people with good sustain solution). i have a 80+ lvl char waiting for a respec and im very very tempted to do MS build because it seems easy and fun. and im planning a crit version - just got this:


ps. sweep is utter dust collector :/ instead of adding new skills with new animations they have a 'new' skill just waiting for that touch and voila - free new skill!

Molten Strike's magma balls are very random.

It's balanced in that (early game) it will either be higher or lower (dmg wise and aoe clearing wise) than existing gems depending on how the balls fall. If your balls don't cooperate you could be doing more consistent damage with double strike! (not to mention you would be doing more damage to fire resistant mobs considering the conversion) ...

Science (bad math):

Double Strike is about 160% dmg. 80% x2

With Molten strike:

If no balls land on the target you're fighting then it's only 120% dmg.

Molten Strike is only as strong as Double Strike if one ball lands = 120% + 60% or 180% dmg

If all three balls land, which rarely happens even against extremely large enemies, then you get an effective "triple.5 strike" = 120% + 60% + 60% + 60% or 300% dmg.

I think it balances out with the incorporation of fire resistance and the 60% conversion.

In terms of Area of Effect this skill might as well be considered a Melee Ranged Split Arrow or a very weak Melee Range LMP Fireball with uncontrollable spread and smaller explosion radius, Firestorm is still the ultimate in Dropped Balls in my opinion...

TLDR: Molten Strike is inconsistent but has amazing potential, I would still prefer Spectral Throw, LeapSlam, or Cleave to clear faster with as little reliance on RNG as possible for consistency.

From experience, it breaks my heart trying to range an almost dead target with my meatballs only to miss 5 times in a row before going in melee range to finish it off... This is a testament to the RNG based potential of the gem and why it makes the skill balanced with others like it even with a 300% dmg potential (pre point blank+conc effect).

End-game (after pointblank+conc effect) you will not have an AOE skill anymore, you can control the spread of the balls better for insane damage potential, but you will be mostly killing single targets with it while using a different skill to AoE with.


Science (more bad math):
So, Point Blank and Concentrated Effect. Conc Effect increases average more dmg of PB from 30% to 40% so, on average you have about a 100% multiplier to your balls (alone, neither conc or PB will affect your single hit damage)

sooo..

with the multiplier alone your projectiles now do 120% of your tooltip dps on average.

This turns a 3 ball hit into
120% + 120% + 120% + 120% = 480% dmg
ontop of being more consistent (still not 100% consistent, only about 30% more consistency is gained by reducing the aoe by 30% so yeah) So, you still can't rely on each hit to be 480% DMG, 240% would be the most average occuring modifier (but not always is)

...

With double strike linked with melee physical damage you get 240% dmg 100% of the time. So.. I mean molten strike has the potential to be half as strong as double strike and twice as strong as double strike.

...math

As for End-Game Aoe.. LMP Spectral Throw, Reave, Ground Slam remain the superior cone AoE attack skills and (especially Reave) kick Molten Strike's ass in clear speed, just because of the range and rng associated with Mltn having very poor coverage.

People are basing MS dps on maximum potentials but it is far from a great aoe skill and it's single target damage is extremely luck based, using Three Dragons with it might make it the stronger mid-game Melee skill in the game, but you're going to get more out of a low-life build with crown of eyes Wrath + crit chance with double strike for an average alternative to Molten.