[2.0] THOR'S RAINBOWNUKE: DO ALL MAPS, UBER ATZIRI, AND EXPLOSIONS!
With 2.0.0g out
" So did this fix also remove the bug where wielding a Mjolner and an offhand (Doryani's Catalyst) weapon both proccing Mjolner's spells when using molten strike? Because before 2.0.0g (was the bug introduced in 2.0.0?), I was able to use Mjolner and Doryani's Catalyst and be able to proc with both weapons when using Molten Strike. It was stupidly powerful, but a hell of a lot of fun! Last edited by elnino2k10 on Jul 23, 2015, 11:21:01 AM


Still working this math out...
OK so I have spent the last few hours trying to do the DPS calculations for this build for the updated guide and WOW it's been a reminder why I wasn't a math major in college...
IGNORE ALL MY PREVIOUS MATH ON THE LAST PAGE AND MY CONCLUSIONS ABOUT POWER CHARGES. I don't think it's correct, based on the following reasoning: Every projectile you fire which hits an enemy generates a charge. If you had infinite maximum charges or a 100% proc rate on Mjolner, your discharge DPS would simply be (# of hits per second) * (damage per charge). This is the theoretical maximum DPS for Discharge. However, because Mjolner does not proc 100% of the time and you don't have infinite charges, some of your hits will occasionally fail to generate new charges for you, and this is what I SHOULD have been paying attention to on the previous page. So, the math on this ought to be: Discharge DPS = #hits/sec * damage per charge * (1 {% of hits which will fail to generate you a new charge}) The % of hits which will fail to generate a new charge for you is: (1{Mjolner Proc Chance})^{maximum # of charges} So, on a 50% Mjolner with 3 charges, 12.5% of your hits will fail to generate new charges (these will be hits which occur when you already have 3 power charges up and the hit fails to proc Mjolner); thus you lose 12.5% of your potential discharge DPS. On a 50% Mjolner with 4 charges, 6.25% of your hits will fail to generate new charges; thus you lose 6.25% of your potential DPS. There will be a LOT more math explaining everything once I get the guide done (soon!) but for now, I am back to thinking that 3 charges is sufficient for a legacy mjolner (4 charges = 4.67% more DPS by this calculation, factoring in arc) and 4 charges will be sufficient for a new mjolner (4 charges = 11% more dps, factoring in arc) The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70 on Jul 23, 2015, 3:55:01 PM
 
I was thinking of using the Intuitive Leap gem to get the EC+PC+Faith and Steel, but I noticed that without the jewel I need to use 6 points, instead of 5, and that one extra point actually goes into the node before Faith and Steel (it is not wasted). So I am not really sure it is worth going for the Intuitive Leap, main reason as to why not: costs too much, for not a really that big of an advantage.
My tree:
https://www.pathofexile.com/passiveskilltree/AAAAAwMAAecNfA48DlwPqxEPEVAUcRa_Fy8ZihqPGyUdFB1PHaogbiSLJLAlvCcLKjgtHy9vNAo1uTboOlJFfkZxSVFJsUuuTLNQMFXWWfNca1yKX2pfsGBDYVJk52aeaGVqm0Zbj1vnnC7cg9yqXvXfNl_xoCkghCDCYO2hEiExYZghtGMdo9Gj_qTJ5Ugm6GbtZ_LoSio6crpzCsmKyqtAy3Mb6AvorBxcHzwzrDbcpKytPQ0NfP2RPZW9tP217fitw37_gwGI6QLqGOq67BjvTuI8NXz3fba9zL31_jrTf60vsJ_kk=?accountName=Jyron&characterName=GPUBenchTest Was thinking of just getting rid of the flask nodes and one spell damage node (I haven't allocated one passive point yet) and going for the EC + PC and testing it out. Other option is to play with 4 EC/PC and go for the Potency of Will through taking out flask nodes, the extra ES node in scion wheel, and both spell damage nodes in witch beginning, though I am pretty skeptical about this method, I am going to try it. E: Also noticed that in my current version of the tree, I can just take out the spell dmg nodes in witch beginning and the extra ES node in scion wheel to get the extra EC+PC. I have personally enjoyed the flask nodes a lot since they give +3% max res more than without the nodes. Also they increase the duration of flasks and makes quicksilvers strong :) Last edited by Jyron on Jul 23, 2015, 3:56:44 PM
 
OK so the DPS calculations for this build are an absolute nightmare. I've wasted like half a day trying to figure this out (OP's calculations have always been incorrect because they do not attempt to calculate the average DPS which is done by discharge  they assume that discharge is always doing the DPS that it does at maximum charges, which it does not).
The mechanics of Mjolner/Arc and how they interact with power charge generation do not seem clear to me. Can anyone help clarify which of the following is correct? 1) You hit a target with your attack, generating a power charge. Mjolner procs Arc, which generates a 2nd power charge. Mjolner then procs Discharge, which fires off both power charges. 2) You hit a target with your attack, generating a power charge. Mjolner procs Arc and Discharge simultaneously, and no power charge is generated by Arc. Discharge fires off a single power charge. 3) You hit a target with your attack, generating a power charge. Mjolner procs Discharge first, discharging a single power charge. Mjolner then procs Arc, which generates a power charge. It seems to me that, per discussion a while back, socketing Arc "first" in the links should yield scenario #1. However, in my testing, I do occasionally get a discharge proc which leaves me with a single Endurance Charge (meaning it discharged a single Power Charge) and I cannot figure out how this happens. Build guide coming a couple hours after I can figure out the DPS calculations and verify that they are accurate. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70 on Jul 23, 2015, 5:16:16 PM
 
Somebody please check my math on the DPS calculations and see if any of this makes sense and seems accurate:
Hard numbers are based off my stats here: The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard  
Somebody please check my math on the DPS calculations and see if any of this makes sense and seems accurate:
Hard numbers are based off my stats here:
Discharge Damage
Arc Damage
Molten/Lightning Strike APS
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CD5XO_1q8kM06V_w91pZNbrOQNDudmGynHo4f4v7OY/edit?usp=sharing My logic/formula currently is as follows: DPS = Attacks/second * Proc Chance * # of attack projectiles hitting target * (Avg Arc Damage + (1+proc chance)*(Avg Discharge Damage per Charge*(1(% chance to fail to generate a new charge due to being at capped charges + mjolner failing to proc)))) The "(1+proc chance)" is there because Arc will generate charges for discharge when it procs, in addition to every hit from your attacks generating a charge. I believe that the correct way to determine the % chance that you will fail to generate a new charge is as follows: (1% proc chance)^(number of maximum charges) IF THIS MATH IS ACCURATE: There's really no reason to get extra charges on a legacy Mjolner, and even on new mjolner it's only a ~7% more damage boost per charge. Also new mjolner is hugely weaker than legacy if this is accurate. For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure this math is NOT accurate. Think I'm missing something on calculating the correct % chance to fail to generate a new charge. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard Last edited by tackle70 on Jul 23, 2015, 5:52:12 PM
 
Ok, so I screwed around a little on Docks in Merciless to see if I could find any observations. I'm no math guru, but here's what I did step by step:
1. Removed Multistrike so I could hit only once at a time. For reference even though it's already been stated in the thread...hitting three times with Molten Strike still only generates ONE Power Charge. This also includes all of the little projectiles from Molten Strike when adding GMP into the mix, and I had Arc and Discharge removed to ensure I was only hitting once and with nothing else but Molten Strike. 2. Removed Discharge and used just Arc. Each hit from Arc's chain DOES add another Power Charge, so if it has a total of 6 hits, then you get 6 Power Charges from one Arc. 3. Removed Arc and tested with just Discharge. What I noticed when I hit enemies with just that is that I would get anywhere from 23 Power Charges showing up. The first one is usually from the Molten Strike initial hit, but it also appears that Discharge itself counts against multiple enemies. That is, even though you use the initial charge/s to fire off Discharge, the fact that it hits enemies and doesn't crit, means that like Arc it SEEMS (could be wrong) it generates Power Charges for each enemy hit. 4. I had Herald of Thunder and Herald of Ice on, but just in case anyone was curious, neither of them will proc Mjolner's ability to launch off the spells. Only Molten Strike and its individual molten balls and regular melee hits work. That and Leap Slam I currently have equipped does as well, but I wasn't testing that. 5. Ok, so tried Leap Slam just now in Aqueducts and I was getting the same results as with using Molten Strike. I would only fire off one Discharge no matter how enemies I hit, but I was still getting around 2 PCs even when only one enemy was around and that was the only viable target I had. On point 3, with just Discharge equipped, I found myself frequently at 2 PCs and 3 ECs, even on a single target at times, and this was more prominent when I had a rare mob that I could beat on for a bit. Again, only had Discharge equipped and was single smacking enemies without Multistrike to be as accurate as I could. From what it looks like, while the MS balls will not generate the additional charges I was getting (even if they hit multiple targets) that can only mean that Discharge itself can generate additional PCs as it strikes multiple foes. The MS balls are likely responsible for firing off Discharge more than once while I was attacking one swing at a time. Again, I am not sure on the math, but hopefully the observations help out in figuring out a decent way of actually calculating what's going on here. **EDIT** It makes me wonder if on a successful proc of Discharge via Mjolner that whatever charges you have are immediately burned, and then the Power Charge/s you'd get from hitting with your attack and seemingly Discharge are then added back into your total. So it goes like this for ye standard 3/3 PC/EC: 3/3 PC/EC > Molten Strike (Mjolner Proc) > 3/3 PC/EC burned > PCs earned from regular attack/Discharge (EC earned from spending initial PCs) > If another hit from MS procced Mjolner then repeat Again, not totally sure, but that seems to be the only logical conclusion I can come to given my observations. That is, unless I missed something or didn't calculate it properly. Also note that when I did the test in Aqueducts I DID NOT HAVE ARC EQUIPPED, just Discharge. Last edited by Tanakeah on Jul 23, 2015, 6:13:17 PM
 
" You can think of the 1  % chance to fail to generate a new charge due to being at capped charges as %chance to proc discharge with full charges btw. Makes it a bit easier. Use combinatorics to figure the chance of you being at max charges and there you have that. I'm really not too concerned on the math, but try not to overthink it too much, you will end up adding a lot of hypothetical (read: pseudo) values that make the equation that much harder, and they might mess up your calculation. Last edited by Jyron on Jul 23, 2015, 6:27:46 PM
 
Thanks for that. So what do you guys think for the new guide? Should I put in the math I have? Something different? Leave the original math from the OP just because it's flashy even though it's not really accurate? Just put in something like "DPS = a lot"?
None of it really matters. The build has fine clear speed and can handle even the craziest bosses so it's not like it really matters what the actual # for DPS winds up being. I'm done expending mental energy on it, though. I sort of think it's too complicated to figure out. The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard  
I'd say just leave the damage at 'Nuclear Levels' and be done with it. :p Too much overreliance on everyone nowadays wanting DPS this and DPS that...this build kills stuff dead as well as your party's frame rate and CPU/GPUs. :P
