projectile damage

"

Mokihiki wrote:

It's consistent with how every other skill works.

projectile damage applying twice, once to initial damage and _again_ to the DoT is consistent with how every other skill works ?

not as i understand it.

That explanation is completely different from what raics seems to be saying. According to what Mark just said, the Projectile Damage would apply only to the portion of the bleed based on the initial hit, and not again to the DoT.

"

raics wrote:

"

plasticeyes wrote:

doesn't "normal" bow physical damage nodes affect puncture DoT as well, by increasing the initial hit damage, or are you saying that if I have 8% projectile damage i get:

1.08 * bow damage
1.08 * (1.08 * bow damage) for the puncture DoT

where as for physical damage node i would get

1.08 * bow damage
1.08 * bow damage for the puncture DoT

Exactly that, DoTs inflicted by projectiles get 'projectile' tag, just like DoTs inflicted by AoEs get AoE tag. For instance, putting concentrated effect on puncture+splash would multiply splashed damage by 1,7 and bleeding inflicted by splashed damage again by 1,7, direct damage and bleed on initial target will be unaffected.

Bow damage nodes do not work on DoT because they affect 'attacks', and 'damage over time' can't be an 'attack' too. As is well known, we got four basic damage categories here, 'attack' 'spell', 'secondary' and 'DoT', they are basic because a single chunk of damage must be one and only one of those.

This is intended behavior, DoT inherits properties related to the way it was inflicted, but cannot change basic damage type.

This is the post I'm referring to in my previous post. Note the formulas used.

Thank you for the explanation Mark.


I thought I would try, in vain probably to put together a calculation.

bow 100 pts

* 50% physical damage with bows
* 24% projectile damage

you've cast vulnerability (level 20)

* 34% increased damage
* 40% increased DoT

so damage to target is:

100 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.24 + 0.34)

now the DoT, a separated calculation, because it would of course have to include things like DoT nodes.

1) 100 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.24 + 0.4) ?

or

2) 100 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.24 + 0.34 + 0.4) ?

I believe it's #2.

So the key items:

* projectile damage is equivalent to physical bow damage
* vulnerability does count twice precisely because it affects the initial damage and the DoT

"

mark1030 wrote:

That explanation is completely different from what raics seems to be saying. According to what Mark just said, the Projectile Damage would apply only to the portion of the bleed based on the initial hit, and not again to the DoT.

I don't see the contradiction. I was saying a bonus will apply once on direct damage and again on resulting bleed, it was never stated a bonus can apply to the same damage chunk twice, which is probably how plasticeyes interpreted it and said it made no sense, and it would make no sense indeed if it was so.

"

plasticeyes wrote:

Thank you for the explanation Mark.
I thought I would try, in vain probably to put together a calculation.

There's a bit of an error at start. Damage increases are always additive, yes, but within a damage dealing stage, so the bonus will be multiplicative because curse is affecting the enemy, not you, and direct damage you did to the target will be:

100 * (1 + 0.5 + 0.24) * (1 + 0.34)

Ok, that's 233 damage taken by the enemy, now Puncture deals 29% of that per second or 174% if moving, so it's 67 damage per second if standing and 405 if moving, that's our base bleeding damage.

Now apply to that projectile damage and any DoT bonus you may have, let's say you also got 16% increased DoT from passive tree, and also 'path of the warrior' passive at scion start for 12% increased physical. Damage over time taken from vulnerabilty affects the enemy, so is, again, multiplicative. Let's say you also inflicted one shock stack on it too (30%), that one will stack additively with vulnerability DoT bonus.

405 * (1 + 0,24 + 0,16 + 0,12) * (1 + 0,4 + 0,3)

So enemy will be bleed for 1046 damage per second.

About bleeding and 'increased physical damage taken' from vulnerability, according to the game rules that one should affect bleed and additively stack with vulnerability 'DoT taken' bonus and shock stacks, however, it didn't work before and I'm not 100% sure they got around to fixing it so I left it out.

So which modifiers works with DoTs?
I think we've already established that projectiles works on both the initial hit and the DoT from said hit, with the reasoning that the DoT is a result from a projectile attack.
But is this true for the ignite from a Fireball as well?

Lets say I use Fireball with Concentrated Effect and also have both projectile and spell damage bonus in my passive skill tree.
Will the increased projectile damage affect the ignite damage?
How about Concentrated Effect from a (non-piercing)Fireball? And spell damage? Fireball have both those tags in it so with the previous reasoning it should work.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

mark1030 wrote:

That explanation is completely different from what raics seems to be saying. According to what Mark just said, the Projectile Damage would apply only to the portion of the bleed based on the initial hit, and not again to the DoT.

I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. I even explicitly pointed out that "projectile" was one of the things that modified the damage over time. It affects both instances of damage.

Ok, then I got confused by the words. Can you tell me if I have it right now in this simple example?

Say I have only one damage node taken of 8% projectile damage, and I hit with a level 1 puncture (10% bleeding damage) that does 100 damage. The initial hit is 100 * 1.08 = 108 damage which makes the 10% bleeding damage 10.8 per second. Then that 8% projectile damage is added again to the bleed? So the bleed would actually be 10.8 * 1.08 = 11.664 damage per second?

Thanks.

"

keyarchan wrote:

So which modifiers works with DoTs?
I think we've already established that projectiles works on both the initial hit and the DoT from said hit, with the reasoning that the DoT is a result from a projectile attack.
But is this true for the ignite from a Fireball as well?

Lets say I use Fireball with Concentrated Effect and also have both projectile and spell damage bonus in my passive skill tree.
Will the increased projectile damage affect the ignite damage?
How about Concentrated Effect from a (non-piercing)Fireball? And spell damage? Fireball have both those tags in it so with the previous reasoning it should work.

As was already mentioned multiple times, DoTs get bonuses related to the way damage was inflicted, so if you inflicted a DoT with a projectile it gets bonuses from projectile damage, if it was inflicted with an AoE it will get AoE damage bonuses. Fireball is both a projectile and an AoE so both types of increases will stack with DoT damage, burn damage and fire damage to boost burning DoT from ignite. Concentrated effect has an AoE damage multiplier so is especially effective at boosting DoT damage.

All this goes for a non-piercing fireball, of course, and it's the same for explosive arrow blasts, those are tagged as projectile, fire and AoE too.

However, as was already mentioned, spell damage is another story, it will not affect DoT because a damage chunk can't be a DoT and a spell (or attack) at the same time, those are basic damage categories and it can be only one of those.

"

mark1030 wrote:

Ok, then I got confused by the words. Can you tell me if I have it right now in this simple example?

That is basically the way it works. You can trust that, what I'm writing here all this time came from the devs at the time of the DoT rework or afterwards at some occasion, I just compiled it somewhat, if any of it was wrong Mark would no doubt correct me.