projectile damage

do Bows do projectile damage i dont want to add skill points to projectile damage if its not going to help with my Bow?

Yes, every skill that you use with a bow that says "bow" as a keyword is a "projectile" as well.

Yup, it works for any projectile, and, more importantly, for any damage type.
Projectile damage boosts even damage over time from poison arrow clouds or puncture, burning damage from ignite status if inflicted by projectiles, and also explosive arrow detonations.

Probably the best type of damage nodes on the whole tree.

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raics wrote:

Yup, it works for any projectile, and, more importantly, for any damage type.
Projectile damage boosts even damage over time from poison arrow clouds or puncture, burning damage from ignite status if inflicted by projectiles, and also explosive arrow detonations.

Probably the best type of damage nodes on the whole tree.

yeah- i'm very confused by this too.

doesn't "normal" bow physical damage nodes affect puncture DoT as well, by increasing the initial hit damage, or are you saying that if I have 8% projectile damage i get:

1.08 * bow damage
1.08 * (1.08 * bow damage) for the puncture DoT

where as for physical damage node i would get

1.08 * bow damage
1.08 * bow damage for the puncture DoT

?

Because that doesn't make any sense.

edit: especially given the fact that puncture does _not_ have a projectile keyword, and neither does poison arrow. this seems bug-ish.

edit2: crap. just saw the note about bow keyword implying projectile damage...

Puncture is a skill that can be used with a bow. When it's used with a bow, it's initial hit is increased by projectile damage. The DOT damage is based off the initial hit. The only way to scale it is to have

1) Increased Damage over Time
2) Increased Physical damage

Note that Vulnerability stacks 3 times with puncture and is the cornerstone of my ranged puncture build. It first increases physical damage, which increases the initial hit, which makes the DOT higher. It then increases the damage of the DOT because it's physical damage over time is increased by the target taking more physical damage. It finally takes 40% increased damage from the damage over time due to the curse.

This curse is exactly how my ranged puncture character one shots almost everything in the game (except curse immune monsters)

Skills can have more than one component, of which some can be affected while others won't. Puncture and Poison arrow are, for the initial arrow, projectiles and those parts gain increased damage when using increased projectile damage. The damage over time components though, are not projectiles and will not be affected by projectile damage.

The "bow" keyword, when used with a bow, is also treated as having the "projectile" keyword, with exception to the effects we just mentioned - because those effects are not projectiles, but rather additional effects. Burning arrow also is increased by projectile damage, but the ignite that it has is a secondary effect that is not a projectile and will not be increased by projectile damage.

I hope this clears it up. The drawback of having such an amazingly complex game is the fact that it's amazingly complex and understanding that there are secondary effects of skills that may not be affected even though the primary effect is affected, can be confusing.

well that's good it works the way i think it should.

_all_ your damage nodes apply to the initial hit.

only DoT nodes apply to the DoT, as well as curses that affect DoT, etc...

this raises the question, what's the point of projectile damage nodes ?

one interesting example. incinerate is a projectile spell. you can go into the ranger area and pick up increased projectile speed and projectile damage nodes and it will apply.

the speed is _very_ useful. 8% damage ? not so much.

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plasticeyes wrote:

doesn't "normal" bow physical damage nodes affect puncture DoT as well, by increasing the initial hit damage, or are you saying that if I have 8% projectile damage i get:

1.08 * bow damage
1.08 * (1.08 * bow damage) for the puncture DoT

where as for physical damage node i would get

1.08 * bow damage
1.08 * bow damage for the puncture DoT

Exactly that, DoTs inflicted by projectiles get 'projectile' tag, just like DoTs inflicted by AoEs get AoE tag. For instance, putting concentrated effect on puncture+splash would multiply splashed damage by 1,7 and bleeding inflicted by splashed damage again by 1,7, direct damage and bleed on initial target will be unaffected.

Bow damage nodes do not work on DoT because they affect 'attacks', and 'damage over time' can't be an 'attack' too. As is well known, we got four basic damage categories here, 'attack' 'spell', 'secondary' and 'DoT', they are basic because a single chunk of damage must be one and only one of those.

This is intended behavior, DoT inherits properties related to the way it was inflicted, but cannot change basic damage type.

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PsionicKitten wrote:

The "bow" keyword, when used with a bow, is also treated as having the "projectile" keyword, with exception to the effects we just mentioned - because those effects are not projectiles, but rather additional effects. Burning arrow also is increased by projectile damage, but the ignite that it has is a secondary effect that is not a projectile and will not be increased by projectile damage.

Except it will be affected by projectile damage, as was confirmed by devs times and times again after the DoT rework.

Bow nodes say only 'physical damage with bows', if we had a bow skill that doesn't shoot a projectile they would still work but projectile nodes won't, the same as for spectral throw, 'physical damage with melee weapons' still works, but 'melee damage' doesn't.

"

plasticeyes wrote:

the speed is _very_ useful. 8% damage ? not so much.

In the ranger start area?

Depends your build.

I pick up the projectile attack damage in my Puncture Build because I don't care about attack speed. I want my initial hit to be as big as possible. Attacking again merely reapplies the DOT I'm trying to kill with, rather than increases the DOT's damage.

I don't mind having attack speed though, because that lets my attack finish faster and I can run away faster, or apply my puncture on another target, or try again on something that I missed.

In many cases though, those attack speed nodes will add more DPS than projectile damage. As illustrated, it depends on your build.

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raics wrote:

Exactly that, DoTs inflicted by projectiles get 'projectile' tag, just like DoTs inflicted by AoEs get AoE tag. For instance, putting concentrated effect on puncture+splash would multiply splashed damage by 1,7 and bleeding inflicted by splashed damage again by 1,7, direct damage and bleed on initial target will be unaffected.

Bow damage nodes do not work on DoT because they affect 'attacks', and 'damage over time' can't be an 'attack' too. As is well known, we got four basic damage categories here, 'attack' 'spell', 'secondary' and 'DoT', they are basic because a single chunk of damage must be one and only one of those.

ok. that makes no sense. the fact the conc effect applies twice seems broken to me. it should only apply to the initial damage. the fact that it then applies AGAIN to the DoT is completely ridiculous.

A subtle difference which makes a _huge_ change to damage output, and really shouldn't.

the definition of how puncture works is based on the damage from the initial hit.

your hit does damage.

you get DoT which is a function of the damage.

you have DoT nodes or DoT effects from a curse -> makes perfect sense because it's DoT.

But wait ! all of a sudden, the projectile damage node you have ALSO modifies the DoT! WTF?!

and all of this makes a tremendous difference in your build.

ugh. what a mess.

thanks very much for your attempt to explain it.

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plasticeyes wrote:

"

raics wrote:

Exactly that, DoTs inflicted by projectiles get 'projectile' tag, just like DoTs inflicted by AoEs get AoE tag. For instance, putting concentrated effect on puncture+splash would multiply splashed damage by 1,7 and bleeding inflicted by splashed damage again by 1,7, direct damage and bleed on initial target will be unaffected.

Bow damage nodes do not work on DoT because they affect 'attacks', and 'damage over time' can't be an 'attack' too. As is well known, we got four basic damage categories here, 'attack' 'spell', 'secondary' and 'DoT', they are basic because a single chunk of damage must be one and only one of those.

ok. that makes no sense. the fact the conc effect applies twice seems broken to me. it should only apply to the initial damage. the fact that it then applies AGAIN to the DoT is completely ridiculous.

A subtle difference which makes a _huge_ change to damage output, and really shouldn't.

the definition of how puncture works is based on the damage from the initial hit.

your hit does damage.

you get DoT which is a function of the damage.

you have DoT nodes or DoT effects from a curse -> makes perfect sense because it's DoT.

But wait ! all of a sudden, the projectile damage node you have ALSO modifies the DoT! WTF?!

and all of this makes a tremendous difference in your build.

ugh. what a mess.

thanks very much for your attempt to explain it.

It's consistent with how every other skill works.