Brian's Feedback to Looting (quote from reddit)

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dirtpoorchris wrote:

I think I quoted the wrong post or something.

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AzraelX wrote:

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Alendac wrote:

using aspects of the game in unintended ways

This is the critical part of the definition which you missed, and which I explained in the post you attempted to disagree with. Please read this excerpt carefully until you're satisfied that you've understood it.

If everyone who caused anyone a problem was a griefer, then literally every person who has ever killed anyone in a PvP environment would be labelled a griefer, because the person who died didn't want to be killed. This obviously isn't the case.

Then again, that should be common sense.

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fevgatos wrote:

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AzraelX wrote:

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Alendac wrote:

using aspects of the game in unintended ways

This is the critical part of the definition which you missed, and which I explained in the post you attempted to disagree with. Please read this excerpt carefully until you're satisfied that you've understood it.

If everyone who caused anyone a problem was a griefer, then literally every person who has ever killed anyone in a PvP environment would be labelled a griefer, because the person who died didn't want to be killed. This obviously isn't the case.

Then again, that should be common sense.

If we try to trade, but instead of an exalted orb as was the deal, I give you a scroll of wisdom. Isn't this griefing 101? Did I use something in an unintended way? That griefing part looks more like using bugs and not what really griefing is meant to be. And yeah, killing someone low level when you are 100 IS griefing.

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TheShortestPath wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Anyone who uses the term "carebear" thinks way too highly of himself in regards to video games. If you don't want to discuss the issues then don't post.

Get the fuck off your high horse, man. If somebody is on the forum for a Diablo-style game whining about other people picking up items, he's a carebear and doesn't belong here. This style of game isn't for people who want things to be "fair", whatever skewed definition of the word you could possibly apply to an iteration of a loot system for this game.

As far as I'm concerned there's no issue to discuss. The 1 second delay to make sure Ranged characters have a shot at actually picking up is fine, it makes sense. Anything beyond that turns this game into something else, and thus does not belong here. If people want a different kind of loot system, they want a different game and should play something else. If they continue posting here complaining that PoE should change into a different type of game, I will reply telling them they're wrong.

Spoiler

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sdkaylor wrote:

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TheShortestPath wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Anyone who uses the term "carebear" thinks way too highly of himself in regards to video games. If you don't want to discuss the issues then don't post.

Get the fuck off your high horse, man. If somebody is on the forum for a Diablo-style game whining about other people picking up items, he's a carebear and doesn't belong here. This style of game isn't for people who want things to be "fair", whatever skewed definition of the word you could possibly apply to an iteration of a loot system for this game.

As far as I'm concerned there's no issue to discuss. The 1 second delay to make sure Ranged characters have a shot at actually picking up is fine, it makes sense. Anything beyond that turns this game into something else, and thus does not belong here. If people want a different kind of loot system, they want a different game and should play something else. If they continue posting here complaining that PoE should change into a different type of game, I will reply telling them they're wrong.

I think you're too quick to attack ShortestPath. I think he was talking about the Professional DotA player who wants Diablo 3 style drops. That's the guy that said FFA players were "carebears".

As far as the second paragraph goes....

Spoiler

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fevgatos wrote:

If we try to trade, but instead of an exalted orb as was the deal, I give you a scroll of wisdom. Isn't this griefing 101?

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fevgatos wrote:

Did I use something in an unintended way? That griefing part looks more like using bugs and not what really griefing is meant to be.

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fevgatos wrote:

And yeah, killing someone low level when you are 100 IS griefing.

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AzraelX wrote:

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fevgatos wrote:

If we try to trade, but instead of an exalted orb as was the deal, I give you a scroll of wisdom. Isn't this griefing 101?

This is scamming, which is different than griefing. The intention of scamming is to exploit other people to secure financial profit, whereas the intention of griefing is to exploit game mechanics to negatively affect other players.

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fevgatos wrote:

Did I use something in an unintended way? That griefing part looks more like using bugs and not what really griefing is meant to be.

Griefers usually don't need to use bugs, although they do sometimes. Generally, they are using normal game mechanics in an unintended way to cause grief.

For example, I once designed a build in Guild Wars which allowed me to kill my own party. Even though every skill worked the way it was supposed to, the combination of skills caused my allies to die, which was not intended. This is griefing.

Another example is in games with body blocking, if you can position yourself in such a way to trap someone somewhere. This is griefing.

This shouldn't be confused with people being assholes in general. A lot of people do obnoxious things that don't fall within the scope of griefing.

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fevgatos wrote:

And yeah, killing someone low level when you are 100 IS griefing.

Not if the game doesn't have level restrictions for PvP. They're just playing the game the way it was intended. That would be classified as ganking, however.

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TheShortestPath wrote:

I assumed he was responding to what I said two posts prior to him, and if that's not the case I apologize.

But the point still stands, someone who expects things to be "fair" and for developers to cater to them wanting the game dumbed down for them so they don't have to compete with other players in a cut-throat game or in a PvP environment is a carebear. That's just what the word means, and I'll call it where I see it. There are some people who are just not cut out for games like that, and there are plenty of other games for them to play where they don't have to worry about "griefing".