GZ FranzKafka, First level 100 on nemesis league!

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Invalesco wrote:

I do not expect nor do I want any action to be taken against the exploiters, as I do feel tat GGG was also at fault here, but nor do I expect people to actually laud the "achievements" of people who abuse bugs. It reflects a sad state of this community if "cheating to win" becomes expected amongst top players and anyone who finds a better way of cheating automatically enters the ranks of a "good player". It insults the good players.

They won the race and did so within the rules set by the GGG.

You can disagree with GGG's rules and you can rightfully blame them for having the rules they have, but you cannot rightfully blame a competitor to do everything they can within the rules to win.

It is both funny and sad that you try take out your anger on innocent players.

Per definition they did not cheat. Bug use is not cheating in this game (unless you dupe XD). That's how it is and if you disagree, then complain to GGG so that they change the rules.

Are you one of those persons that cry "FOUL!" when someone shoots you in a FPS? Are you one of those persons that cry when someone scams someone in a game where scamming is allowed such as EVE online?

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mazul wrote:

in a game where scamming is allowed such as EVE online?

<3 EVE online. The game that taught me that 100% of everything in the world is a scam, and every single person on the planet is out to get me.

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ZiggySobotka wrote:

Invalesco's comments are exactly what I hoped would be the prevailing opinion of people who commented here. Unfortunately, people just can't understand the difference between playing PoE in the spirit it was intended and exploiting an oversight by the developers to bypass content. It really doesn't matter that making use of the bug took imagination and creativity, it's still something that people who have respect for the game wouldn't have taken advantage of, either directly or by playing with people who did.

LOLOLOLlllllllllllllllllllllllll. Noone plays PoE in the spirit it was intended. PoE was meant to be played on short allocation, how many people do only play in short allocation? Almost noone.


In a competition, there are rules set and the serious competitors are supposed to do everything they can within the rules to win. Cheating as in breaking the rules, should never be tolerated.

I get it that you didn't like the rules GGG implemented for this race. You are welcome to direct all your hatred towards them, but not so to the competitors who followed the rules.


Edit: And yes, the "cutthroat feeling" is an important aspect of PoE. Something that Chris has stated numerous times and also in Athene's interview. It is the very reason we don't have instanced looting.

It is only after much forum whining, GGG gave people the choice to play in ways that go against the cutthroat philosophy: Permanent Allocation.

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mazul wrote:

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ZiggySobotka wrote:

Invalesco's comments are exactly what I hoped would be the prevailing opinion of people who commented here. Unfortunately, people just can't understand the difference between playing PoE in the spirit it was intended and exploiting an oversight by the developers to bypass content. It really doesn't matter that making use of the bug took imagination and creativity, it's still something that people who have respect for the game wouldn't have taken advantage of, either directly or by playing with people who did.

LOLOLOLlllllllllllllllllllllllll. Noone plays PoE in the spirit it was intended. PoE was meant to be played on short allocation, how many people do only play in short allocation? Almost noone.


In a competition, there are rules set and the serious competitors are supposed to do everything they can within the rules to win. Cheating as in breaking the rules, should never be tolerated.

I get it that you didn't like the rules GGG implemented for this race. You are welcome to direct all your hatred towards them, but not so to the competitors who followed the rules.

I agree with Ziggy. Anyone who thought that was "a clever use of game mechanics" is in denial that they are exploiting the game. Chris is quoted saying something along the lines of - 'If you feel like it is exploiting, it probably is' (loosely quoting here, but that was the idea behind his post)

This clearly falls in that category. Also, if it isn't an exploit, why are they patching it in the next update, hmm?


edited to remove an insult

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jarlaxelb wrote:

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mazul wrote:

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ZiggySobotka wrote:

Invalesco's comments are exactly what I hoped would be the prevailing opinion of people who commented here. Unfortunately, people just can't understand the difference between playing PoE in the spirit it was intended and exploiting an oversight by the developers to bypass content. It really doesn't matter that making use of the bug took imagination and creativity, it's still something that people who have respect for the game wouldn't have taken advantage of, either directly or by playing with people who did.

LOLOLOLlllllllllllllllllllllllll. Noone plays PoE in the spirit it was intended. PoE was meant to be played on short allocation, how many people do only play in short allocation? Almost noone.


In a competition, there are rules set and the serious competitors are supposed to do everything they can within the rules to win. Cheating as in breaking the rules, should never be tolerated.

I get it that you didn't like the rules GGG implemented for this race. You are welcome to direct all your hatred towards them, but not so to the competitors who followed the rules.

I agree with Ziggy. Anyone who thought that was "a clever use of game mechanics" is an idiot. Chris is quoted saying something along the lines of - 'If you feel like it is exploiting, it probably is' (loosely quoting here, but that was the idea behind his post)

This clearly falls in that category. Also, if it isn't an exploit, why are they patching it in the next update, hmm?

Is it against the rules of the competition to use "exploits"?

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1235 wrote:

yes retard cheating is apparently against the rules

You know what cheating is? Cheating = breaking the rules.

If exploiting besides duping isn't against the rules, then it isn't cheating.

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mazul wrote:

Is it against the rules of the competition to use "exploits"?

I don't know, but I'm not some guy who spends his time reading 'rules' to online games.

What I am saying is, that I agree with Ziggy. If you find some mechanic that lets you trivialize content to that extent, you clearly know you are exploiting, and if you don't you are in denial.

IDGAF about rules. What they were doing undermines the integrity of the game, and there should be consequences. You do know that you agree to a ToS when you create an account, right?

And it's basically GGG's discretion to ban you if they so feel like it (because you agreed to it to be able to use their product), thus making your 'rules' obsolete?

edit: just noticed that I'm 'discussing' this with mazul, I'll just /thread now

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jarlaxelb wrote:

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mazul wrote:

Is it against the rules of the competition to use "exploits"?

I don't know, but I'm not some guy who spends his time reading 'rules' to online games.

What I am saying is, that I agree with Ziggy. If you find some mechanic that lets you trivialize content to that extent, you clearly know you are exploiting, and if you don't you are in denial.

IDGAF about rules. What they were doing undermines the integrity of the game, and there should be consequences. You do know that you agree to a ToS when you create an account, right?

And it's basically GGG's discretion to ban you if they so feel like it (because you agreed to it to be able to use their product), thus making your 'rules' obsolete?

edit: just noticed that I'm 'discussing' this with mazul, I'll just /thread now

So basically, you wish GGG had a different stance. That's ok. But don't blame players for following the rules set forth by GGG even if you disagree with those rules.

It is disgusting how people are doing a misdirected witch hunt.

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mazul wrote:

Is it against the rules of the competition to use "exploits"?

Exactly, it's not, you pretty much get it. GGG has stated some time ago that you're free to abuse shit like this until it's fixed and you won't get punished. So, please stop hating on someone who played his ass off to get an achievement. So what, havoc made clearing countless maps a bit less boring by increasing their group's clear speed when he could, and he did it within what's allowed in this game.

They didn't use any exploits to get maps, and that's what has always mattered at high levels, having tons of high level maps. They got the maps, and they just wanted to bite through that pile of boring shit faster, so that's exactly what they did. It's not like they had any sort of an advantage over other players, the CoD exploit is there for everyone (not for long I hope), and it is allowed.

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It is disgusting how people are doing a misdirected witch hunt.

The community is doing nothing of this kind. the witch hunt is a direct result of using an exploit while being fully aware it was an exploit.

And by not alarming GGG about this issue and asking if it is allowed y/n insulting GGG and the other top-ladder players.

The simplest example of this is

Kripp : finds an exploit, the very next day he uses it on his stream for everybody to see, and even marvel at his brilliance of finding it. Everybody applauds, even at the GGG office some people marvel at the brilliance of mechanics used in order to bypass other mechanics.

It gets fixed, and there is a mutual respect between GGG and the community, for both alarming them, and then having the honor to come forth with it before it effect's the gameplay on a massive scale.

Havoc : finds an exploit, stops streaming in order to not alarm anybody so he can proceed to use it.

It does not get fixed, and result's in an unbalanced league/ladder result, which may or may not effect future league's and GGG as a whole.

In case one, the player is applauded for his skill, and cooperation with the company that is providing him the game by which he earns an income. Striving for a good and healthy community, even if it means patching an exploit he just found. This will most likely result in what i consider "healthy and honest" fame and more viewers.

In case two, the player finds an exploit, and keeps it to himself in fear of nerf (can you nerf a glitch, imo you can not), by doing this he confirms that he is fully aware he is utilizing a non-intentional game glitch, but still proceeds to utilize it. Ridiculing the ladder players and GGG as a company. Which will not result in the same "healthy and honest" fame as mentioned in case one.

And this is what you see in this thread.

Are you really surprised by the fact that people wont align behind a player that promotes distance between GGG and there community? Or are you just out for a fight?

Havoc created this karma for himself, now he will reap the results. Nothing will change that, it is the nature of karma to repay what has been gained. Either positive or negative.

He chose for the path to negative karma, the results will reflect that.
It is funny to consider that he could have chosen positive karma instead.