One Week Nemesis Race Infographic

and no dmg..
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Pulpfictionz wrote:
and no dmg..


um why because he's not dual wielding with a faceroll BoR?
Berek's Grip Ice Spear
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/780707
Budget Magicfind and/or Hardcore Flame Totem
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1211543
This is fantastic. I'm way late for this but I'm so happy to see infographics like this that are available for the players to see!
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I realize that this data is certainly relevant to an extent, but I also feel that attacking the popular stuff is going to be an absolutely horrendous way of approaching the new leagues coming up.

Here's the thing, you have created a highly competitive, hardcore game. People want to compete. In a one week race, EV isn't nearly as competitive as IR, and ES even less so. I will agree that IR is a bit TOO ubiquitous, but I can promise you that if GGG found a way to make leveling 1-85 going full CI competitive against IR, people would do it. I'd do it for sure. I love CI and I hate how shitty it is to play, requiring a respec or constant twink gear is a worse offense than anything IR ever committed.

EV is in a similar spot, not necessarily as bad, but there are so many hard counters (Proj Weakness, the steadily growing number of physical spells, especially considering most of them hit like trucks, etc.) that armor just doesn't have. Armor is playable and fun. EV *can* be once you've got your character geared out and 80+, but you'll probably run armor until you get to that point.

I just don't want to see more of these heavy-handed changes as we go forward. I love this game, but the constant over nerf, over buff, over nerf thing really spoils my desire to play.

When I look at that infographic, my first thought isn't "OMG LOL IR OP!," it's "I wonder how they could change or buff Vaal Pact, CI, the Witch/Shadow starts, etc. so they'd be competitive and enjoyable?"

I think these results weren't totally surprising, but I think the race format had a substantial impact on the results we're seeing.



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Silmaure
RE: Iron Reflexes

I don't think it is terribly weird to see it in any hardcore game setting let alone a race.

1) Gear options: As stated Iron Reflexes greatly widens gear options available to you, so for races you are much less dependent on pure armor gear.

2) Armor is a much safer choice over evasion in hardcore play. Taking a guaranteed smaller hit every time versus an occasional sonic boom that has the potential to one shot is tremendously one sided. Most would choose the safest option when death means you start over.

3) There is no evasion equivalent to IR. Pure evasion set-ups lower level are not tremendously easy and coupled with gearing problems of only having pure evasion as the available armor choice it can be hard to set up till later in ones play.

4) Crit builds (usually shadows) need phys mitigation for reflect or they will kill themselves quite often. Shadows are specifically far from any strength gains for wearing pure armor gear and in getting the nodes greatly detract from the builds themselves.

5) Evasion gear has higher values than armor. So, if you wore pure evasion armor you can reach a higher phys reduction with IR than pure armor gear.

My proposed fix for this would be an adjustment to the IR keystone and/or a similar keystone for evasion being made.

Changing IR to be you receive a percentage of the evasion as armor rather than all of it such as 60% and then 3 nodes only available after you obtain it that raise that 5% each to a cap of 75% (Percentage due to change depending on balance needs of course). This would require more points to make it effective and reduce some from taking it to save points for other things.

Making a similar node to IR for Evasion would be a nice additive as well. However here I would make the nodes afterword affect things like dodge chance, spell dodge chance, etc.

Also, you could make IR only affect evasion on gear. Therefor, evasion flasks would not be able to be used in tandem with granite flasks to double stack the armor bonuses.

Finally, something regarding phys reflect and phys damage spells seems like it would need addressing for pure evasion chars. Like a keystone that does -50% phys reflect damage taken +50% elemental reflect damage taken that is behind phase acrobatics. Or a conversion of phys damage taken to elemental damage taken. Maybe even Phys damage conversion to chaos damage with the stipulation that it cannot be taken in conjunction with CI.

RE: Chaos Inoculation

Again, how CI is implemented currently, it is not surprising to not see this as prevalently in the race. A good CI char is really meant for at least a second character.

1) CI is not a possibility from the beginning. Meaning you will need to spec into life to survive only to have to reset those passives later. If you mess up, you will need regret orbs.

2) Good CI pieces are rare to find and, consequently, quite expensive. Leading a person to either farm for the gear or the money to buy it from others.

3) It makes the player extremely vulnerable to any ailments (I.E. freeze/shock/ignite/stun) do to them being still based of the characters now 1hp. Creating long durations for these ailments.

My proposed fix would be an adjustment to ES equipment and a keystone.

Adjust ES only equipment (NOT Armor/ES or Eva/ES) to increase the base ES available an item can have, but lower the max possible roll of +ES an item can obtain. Resulting in the same possible high outcomes but with medium rolls more available to beginners.

A keystone behind CI at the end of the 12% more energy shield node that does all status effects are based off 65% of energy shield instead of life to help with stun/freeze/shock/ignite.


About IR :
2) No, it doesn't just work like that. Evasion is much much much more efficient against big physical bosses plus if you get one shot by a hit with 0 armor, you would most likely have been one shot with armor if your armor value is not really high, which is difficult in a 1 week race.
The main reason why evasion is dangerous is physical spells, as some bosses have dangerous ones.

5) No, evasion pieces of gear have not a higher value than armor ones .... I have no clue where you found that honestly.

Having a keystone that does the same thing than IR, but the other way around would make no sense whatsoever, how come something could makes a really heavy plated armor a good thing to dodge anything ?


About CI :
1) Agree with that, I would like to have a solution to make CI an option earlier on in the game.
Maybe having 3 different keystones ( one after another ):
a) The player only takes 70% from chaos attack - remove 30% of life - 5% more ES.
b) The player only takes 30% from chaos attack - remove 70% of life - 6% more ES.
c) The player is immune to chaos - max life is one - 7% morer ES.

I know that the 'more ES' modifier globaly is like ~19% more ES, this is because the current value could take a buff ( and the 3 inc ES nodes would disappear ).

3) This is one cons of CI, there are things to counter this, even though the player must make some sacrifices. Without that, CI would probably just be OP. Invalesco made a nice thread about CI in the feedback section.



Btw, I said it already but I'm gonna say it again : Need to know how many people had a well leveling spectral throw gem, I'm pretty sure that it's quite huge. And seeing how racer use this skill, it needs a much more urgent fix than IR imho.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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Vinifera7 wrote:
Possibly the most interesting statistic here is the overwhelming ubiquity of Iron Reflexes.


Evasion sucks, why wouldnt you take IR?
177
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Fruz wrote:

About CI :
1) Agree with that, I would like to have a solution to make CI an option earlier on in the game.


CI keystone should also make ailments based on ES instead of life, and buff ES nodes or something.

As it is now, you have to take life, then respec. In a regular game, I'm playing softcore and I'm ok with CI (except status ailments, which suck). But in a race, I cant imagine why you'd want it. What the hell were those 6 guys thinking? :D

177
Last edited by toyotatundra on Jan 22, 2014, 1:04:00 PM
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toyotatundra wrote:
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Fruz wrote:

About CI :
1) Agree with that, I would like to have a solution to make CI an option earlier on in the game.


CI keystone should also make ailments based on ES instead of life, and buff ES nodes or something.

Nah, because this would make it OP, even considering that CI globally could definitely take a buff.
CI needs real downsides.

Maybe those 6 guys just found really good ES gear and spent their 16 points + couple of regrets to de-spec from life and re-spec into CI.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Last edited by Fruz on Jan 22, 2014, 4:04:04 PM
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Qarl wrote:


Normal Sceptre 2 and Merciless Pyramid were next.


Merciless pyramid really needs to be looked at.

The thing that makes this place so dangerous is that if you attempt to kill a "cannot die" pack you are very likely to desync into its room and since pyramid has all types of damage you may get frozen/shocked and once you realize you are already too late to log out.
Last edited by Hogaric on Mar 4, 2014, 3:56:45 PM
Who else can't wait to see the RIP's in the two week race?
The chance to Vaal +1% maximum resists on an amulet is less than 1/300.

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