You guys know rampant RMT abuse comes from a shit economy, right?

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

RMT abuse comes from people not wanting to invest time in the game to obtain the items they want.

Or from people investing time without absolutely nothing to show for it. I have 21 days played on my Scion in Nemesis. 21 fucking days! I can count the number of items I've found worth 5ex+ on 1 hand. Most people won't play 21 days of PoE in a lifetime.

"

Consequence wrote:

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Teridax wrote:

Every other online game has an economy without the level of RMT in PoE.

That is where all credibility is lost.

If an online game is popular...

If it has an economy at all....

and if it has come out in recent years....

Then it has a high lvl of RMTs going on.

This is wrong. Remember in .08 D2 and before when Windforce bows were selling for $300? Then came the runewords, dupes, and flooding of items/runes. The game actually increased it's playerbase during that time, and you could buy 200 high runes for $5, which would buy you anything in the game. The RMT sites were scraping for pennies once the rune currency got duped to shit. In PoE, the RMT sites are making a killing, because the drop rates and gambling system are beyond absolute asshole.

Fact about Diablo 2- when a rush of abundant duped currency hit the market the playerbase grew, RMT sites had a harder time, and the replay value was at an all time high.

Fact about PoE- the drop rates are nice and shitty for all you apologists, trade scalpers, and RMT supporters. The game is boring, crafting is nothing more than a carrot on a stick, and my friends list is a ghost town.

Keep yelling "keep the shit drop rates! game of the year!", but you're lying to yourself if you think that this game hasn't been again hemorrhaging players for the last month.

"

nGio wrote:

The game actually increased it's playerbase during that time ...

The number of people playing online games exploded at the same time. Duping isn't what increased the player base: more wide-spread and affordable internet access did.

"

nGio wrote:

Or from people investing time without absolutely nothing to show for it. I have 21 days played on my Scion in Nemesis. 21 fucking days! I can count the number of items I've found worth 5ex+ on 1 hand. Most people won't play 21 days of PoE in a lifetime.

If you aren't poopsocking PoE you're a filthy casual.

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

RMT abuse comes from people not wanting to invest time in the game to obtain the items they want.

Looking at RMT as a black and white RMT vs non RMT is a ignorant way to look at the issue. You have to look at how much RMT is a problem, and RMT becomes increasingly more problematic the more the players don't get rewarded for their efforts (relative to time)

Which actually describes PoE completely

This is why you typically find korean MMO's have the worst issues with RMT, and its because those games are laden with excessive amounts of grind and expect players to play ridiculously long hours to actually achieve anything

In some rare cases, instead of RMT, people create private servers to remove all of the grind, which is exactly what happened to RO. In fact, with RO, more people played on private servers than the official ones, which was hilarious

As a comparison, although WoW had private servers, the amount of people that played on WoW's private servers were negligible, mainly because Blizzard actually cares about sane progression in their games

"

Keep yelling "keep the shit drop rates! game of the year!", but you're lying to yourself if you think that this game hasn't been again hemorrhaging players for the last month.

Source?

"

deteego wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

RMT abuse comes from people not wanting to invest time in the game to obtain the items they want.

Looking at RMT as a black and white RMT vs non RMT is a ignorant way to look at the issue. You have to look at how much RMT is a problem, and RMT becomes increasingly more problematic the more the players don't get rewarded for their efforts (relative to time)

Which actually describes PoE completely

This is why you typically find korean MMO's have the worst issues with RMT, and its because those games are laden with excessive amounts of grind and expect players to play ridiculously long hours to actually achieve anything

In some rare cases, instead of RMT, people create private servers to remove all of the grind, which is exactly what happened to RO. In fact, with RO, more people played on private servers than the official ones, which was hilarious

As a comparison, although WoW had private servers, the amount of people that played on WoW's private servers were negligible, mainly because Blizzard actually cares about sane progression in their games

Increasing the drop rates or making 6 linking less of a crapshoot does not stop the players who would of rmt'ing in a less rng based game from rmt'ing.

the people who rmt arent doing it to get a semi viable 72 map chars. their doing it to get BiS gear so they face roll the game with their pitiful little level 81 chars theyve probly put no more than 40 hours into. I have seen and heard too many examples of unknowns with no trade threads, barely a month of activity on low level characters nonchalantly mirroring items like they were vendor pieces. its sickening and goes against the spirit of the game.

Revamping the progression curve does nothing to curb the desire of these players because decent and viable gear is not bis gear which will always be incredibly expensive.

"

Nephalim wrote:

"

deteego wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

RMT abuse comes from people not wanting to invest time in the game to obtain the items they want.

Looking at RMT as a black and white RMT vs non RMT is a ignorant way to look at the issue. You have to look at how much RMT is a problem, and RMT becomes increasingly more problematic the more the players don't get rewarded for their efforts (relative to time)

Which actually describes PoE completely

This is why you typically find korean MMO's have the worst issues with RMT, and its because those games are laden with excessive amounts of grind and expect players to play ridiculously long hours to actually achieve anything

In some rare cases, instead of RMT, people create private servers to remove all of the grind, which is exactly what happened to RO. In fact, with RO, more people played on private servers than the official ones, which was hilarious

As a comparison, although WoW had private servers, the amount of people that played on WoW's private servers were negligible, mainly because Blizzard actually cares about sane progression in their games

Increasing the drop rates or making 6 linking less of a crapshoot does not stop the players who would of rmt'ing in a less rng based game from rmt'ing.

the people who rmt arent doing it to get a semi viable 72 map chars. their doing it to get BiS gear so they face roll the game with their pitiful little level 81 chars theyve probly put no more than 40 hours into. I have seen and heard too many examples of unknowns with no trade threads, barely a month of activity on low level characters nonchalantly mirroring items like they were vendor pieces. its sickening and goes against the spirit of the game.

Revamping the progression curve does nothing to curb the desire of these players because decent and viable gear is not bis gear which will always be incredibly expensive.

No, that is wrong. Alot of people are simply gated from lots of builds and content because of the low drop rates, so it would do alot more than just shifting the curves to the same equilibrium.

"

Nephalim wrote:

"

deteego wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

RMT abuse comes from people not wanting to invest time in the game to obtain the items they want.

Looking at RMT as a black and white RMT vs non RMT is a ignorant way to look at the issue. You have to look at how much RMT is a problem, and RMT becomes increasingly more problematic the more the players don't get rewarded for their efforts (relative to time)

Which actually describes PoE completely

This is why you typically find korean MMO's have the worst issues with RMT, and its because those games are laden with excessive amounts of grind and expect players to play ridiculously long hours to actually achieve anything

In some rare cases, instead of RMT, people create private servers to remove all of the grind, which is exactly what happened to RO. In fact, with RO, more people played on private servers than the official ones, which was hilarious

As a comparison, although WoW had private servers, the amount of people that played on WoW's private servers were negligible, mainly because Blizzard actually cares about sane progression in their games

Increasing the drop rates or making 6 linking less of a crapshoot does not stop the players who would of rmt'ing in a less rng based game from rmt'ing.

the people who rmt arent doing it to get a semi viable 72 map chars. their doing it to get BiS gear so they face roll the game with their pitiful little level 81 chars theyve probly put no more than 40 hours into. I have seen and heard too many examples of unknowns with no trade threads, barely a month of activity on low level characters nonchalantly mirroring items like they were vendor pieces. its sickening and goes against the spirit of the game.

Revamping the progression curve does nothing to curb the desire of these players because decent and viable gear is not bis gear which will always be incredibly expensive.

Empirically speaking, you are wrong

The games that have more issues with RNG are always that are as I described above. Another really good example actually is WoW, where there was an RMT service to level characters to max level when all the expansions started getting released. Then Blizzard drastically increased the ability to gain exp on lower levels (directly or indirectly, i.e. quests) to the point where you could get to max level in a week, and it suddenly shut down most of those RMT sites

Have a look at what nGio said as another example. Of course there are the RO servers.

You are dead wrong about this, thats all there is left to say

"

Antnee wrote:

"

Keep yelling "keep the shit drop rates! game of the year!", but you're lying to yourself if you think that this game hasn't been again hemorrhaging players for the last month.

Source?

"It's obvious wut r u blind fanboi?"

Ahem.

I mean, yeah this is an unsupported claim, and it has two parts:

1) Players are leaving in significant quantities.
2) This is because of the drop rates.

I am skeptical (as always).

You would expect a drop in player levels even if everything was fine. There was a "release" on steam, that brought in new players, and this always causes a spike in activity followed by a dip as the initial hype wears off. Furthermore, we're several weeks into a temporary league, so a lot of players have completed one or more characters and are taking a break -- a lot of these players are likely to return for new leagues when they appear.

"

No, that is wrong. Alot of people are simply gated from lots of builds and content because of the low drop rates, so it would do alot more than just shifting the curves to the same equilibrium.

Cam you give me some examples of gated builds that cause people to turn to rmt?

"

Empirically speaking, you are wrong

The games that have more issues with RNG are always that are as I described above. Another really good example actually is WoW, where there was an RMT service to level characters to max level when all the expansions started getting released. Then Blizzard drastically increased the ability to gain exp on lower levels (directly or indirectly, i.e. quests) to the point where you could get to max level in a week, and it suddenly shut down most of those RMT sites

Have a look at what nGio said as another example. Of course there are the RO servers.

You are dead wrong about this, thats all there is left to say

What do you propose would be some good balance changes to poe that would deter people from rmt.