You guys know rampant RMT abuse comes from a shit economy, right?

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Nephalim wrote:

I do not see how this would curb rmt in the slightest. do you think people are rmting thousands of jewelers and fusings to get 4 5 links so they can rightfully finish a3 merciless? Everything you said related to being to clear a3 merciless, correct me if im wrong.

No, they use RMT currency to purchase item upgrades because no item drops which they can actually equip and use.

Using RMT to purchase fusings for an item that just dropped is stupid with the current system, unless you have like a perfect roll volatnic bow or something

Why do people act like drop rates have to do with RMT?

There will be RMT for the BIS items and items in general as long as people are too lazy to get their own stuff.

Hell even if they don't have trading what so ever, people will just buy accounts prelevel with a set amount of stuff inside of them.

If you want RMT to be gone, you have to be barbaric and draconian with your methods instantly banning anyone who possibility be RMT and scanning all of your players trades and privacy through their PMs and in game chat. Then remove any currency and item games in the game that could possibly be duped or botted. Of course then you would make players hate you for the percent that sold x item and got paid in botted chaos orbs because it'll go poof.

Stop using a flaw in online games with an economy for a justification to change the fundamentals of the game that still will inherently not change the flaw to begin with.

RMT will always exist in games. It is misguided and idealistic for games to try not to be "pay to win" because the money will go to gold farmers instead of game development. Star Citizen has the right approach so far. You can either buy or work in game for the same things. A small amount of money can be used each day with a capped total for folks with little time to grind. Chris Roberts has posted his thoughts on the subject and other game developers would be wise to follow his example. It is the sensible compromise.

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nGio wrote:

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Consequence wrote:

Spoiler

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Teridax wrote:

Every other online game has an economy without the level of RMT in PoE.

That is where all credibility is lost.

If an online game is popular...

If it has an economy at all....

and if it has come out in recent years....

Then it has a high lvl of RMTs going on.

This is wrong. Remember in .08 D2 and before when Windforce bows were selling for $300? Then came the runewords, dupes, and flooding of items/runes. The game actually increased it's playerbase during that time, and you could buy 200 high runes for $5, which would buy you anything in the game. The RMT sites were scraping for pennies once the rune currency got duped to shit. In PoE, the RMT sites are making a killing, because the drop rates and gambling system are beyond absolute asshole.

Fact about Diablo 2- when a rush of abundant duped currency hit the market the playerbase grew, RMT sites had a harder time, and the replay value was at an all time high.

Fact about PoE- the drop rates are nice and shitty for all you apologists, trade scalpers, and RMT supporters. The game is boring, crafting is nothing more than a carrot on a stick, and my friends list is a ghost town.

Keep yelling "keep the shit drop rates! game of the year!", but you're lying to yourself if you think that this game hasn't been again hemorrhaging players for the last month.

Hold on, let me see if I get this straight.

You're claiming the ability to dupe any item you wanted — essentially bypassing item progression altogether — is something which enhanced, rather than detracted from, replay value in D2, and is something PoE should strive to emulate?

That's a bunch of horse shit. Diablo 2 was a great game — when it wasn't being cheated, which essentially meant when not using D2's economy at all because the whole thing was hideously tainted by duping. What you uphold as heaven is, in fact, hell, and thank God there isn't that level of instant-gratification bypass in PoE.

I mean, shit, I'm not trying to be extremist here. To paraphrase my favorite character from The Departed, maybe drop rates are a little too low. Maybe they're not. And maybe fuck duping. And to those who hold up D2's duping as a strength instead of one of its few weaknesses... there is where all credibility is lost.

And it's truly sad that no one called him out on this before me.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I mean, shit, I'm not trying to be extremist here. To paraphrase my favorite character from The Departed, maybe drop rates are a little too low. Maybe they're not. And maybe fuck duping. And to those who hold up D2's duping as a strength instead of one of its few weaknesses... there is where all credibility is lost.

That guy's awesome.

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RagnarokChu wrote:

Why do people act like drop rates have to do with RMT?

Probably because there is empirical evidence to support this, as has been stated earlier. Its not necessarily drop rates, but more to do with progression, and the two do go hand in hand in a lot of ways when regarding aRPGS

I dont think drop rates are bad at all, when I started in the new leagues I was able to just walk through the game all the way to maps, anything I needed and didnt find I found a chaos or two to trade for it.

There are many levels of gear in this game, the gear you need to get into maps is so low down on the list virtually anyone can find it, although most probably dont have a build that can function with it. The gear you need is sub 'ok' gear, ok gear takes a little grinding but again anyone can find it with a bit of effort.

You dont even need respectable or good gear, and good gear is so far below great gear and even great gear in this game is often so far below the actual potential for gear to roll that I think people lose sight of the fact you dont need anything remotely like this gear. If you play well and are playing a build whos gear is realistic to find quickly then its unlikely you will come unstuck.



I think the economies are fine, theyre stable, trade is still rampant, you can trade for almost anything at any time. I dont think there is more rmt here than elsewhere, I think the old mapping system probably drove some people to rmt who may have not gone there otherwise but on the whole its just business as usual for an arpg, theres a bit of rmt going on. I dont even care, if someone wants to rmt some orbs I really couldnt give a crap. A game designed or balanced around the use of rmt, that I would care about maybe, gladly I dont have to play one.


I think theres some issues with aspects of the items, some stats like regen, loh, mana on kill etc just dont scale well to endgame and become a permanent bad stat, theres a bit of an issue with the need for an ilvl74 item being able to roll lvl2 stats... like a lvl15 stat isnt dogshit enough on a 74 piece? would it hurt to cap it 40 levels lower than the item or something? Theres a few issues that do add up to a lot of potential for an item to be crap but on the whole I dont see what all the fuss is about, everything is rolling along nicely.

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Probably because there is empirical evidence to support this, as has been stated earlier. Its not necessarily drop rates, but more to do with progression, and the two do go hand in hand in a lot of ways when regarding aRPGS

No one is rmting so they can safely clear A3 merciless.

their rmting 500 exalts at a time so they can get bis items.

your progression theory does not apply to endgame bis gear unless you feel they should be made even easier to craft than they already ever.

I must ask if you have ever seen what an actual rmt'er looks like, does, and buys?

Honestly with the drop rates & the horrid map scenario..

Playing this game without RMt or absurb luck is just dumb.

And yes im hinting at something here.

OP hit it nail on the head. Hope GG is reading this.

Once you are a high enough level you will realize that you need to RMT just to gain meaningful XP.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Probably because there is empirical evidence to support this, as has been stated earlier. Its not necessarily drop rates, but more to do with progression, and the two do go hand in hand in a lot of ways when regarding aRPGS

No one is rmting so they can safely clear A3 merciless.

their rmting 500 exalts at a time so they can get bis items.

your progression theory does not apply to endgame bis gear unless you feel they should be made even easier to craft than they already ever.

I must ask if you have ever seen what an actual rmt'er looks like, does, and buys?

No, they use RMT to purchase exalts and use that to purchase items because a single item hasn't dropped which they find useful in weeks, if not months