You guys know rampant RMT abuse comes from a shit economy, right?

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

BuDiu wrote:

....

i said directly , your example uses an item whose value is in gold.

that is currency - item - currency


what im talking about is currency - currency - currency

where you literally buy 11 million gold with 10 million gold with no items nothing just flat up cash for cash.

that is what currency flipping in poe is , rmt traders literally printing money out of thin air by trading money for more money .


with the example with items its a gamble because people might not want your item for the mark up.

where as currency - currency is still currency no real risk you still have all your money.

dude item or gold or orb, all can be used as currency. It does not make a difference. Like you can consider an orb a currency to trade or a usable item to lets say, give you a respect point. Come on.. If you cant grasp this simple concept how are we gonna continue our great conversation!!! Flipping items / currency is part of any game economy. Thats A NORMAL THING. Similar concept stock trading.

"

vampirekid13 wrote:

dont be fooled into thinking POE has any more RMT than any other game.


all online games with an economy have RMT, d2, d3, wow are prime examples. tbh it doesnt bug me much at all. i just turn off trade chat unless i NEED to buy/sell something.

all those games had exploitable loop holes , one does not beat rmt , one only reduces the effects and apparent influence of rmt .

and there are many ways to do that.


1 dont make a game where people are dependent on trades
2 dont make a game where some currency can be made artificially scarce
3 dont gate items behind content because that generates scarcity and monopolies
4 dont add an ah because bots can be programmed to exploit it.
5 dont use a shit load of time wasting mechanics that favor gambling (because people would rather just pay money to get what they want than waste time and money for a low chance of getting what they want)
6 dont make it blatantly obvious that you are wasting peoples time (gambling makes it painfully apparent that you are wasting time). waste peoples time all sneaky like

You can't sell snow to eskimos.

If we would have a well designed economy, balanced drop rates, then players would be progressing on their own mainly by crafting and with self found gear/goods.
That would be our snow, so nobody could sell us anything, because we would already have it.

The game needs to turn off the gear check obsession.
Being cockblocked from end game content purely because one lacks gear which is rarer than winning a lottery, will lead only to one thing: what we have now, RMT farmers.

To the GGG team: How about you focus on a more dynamic combination of passives and gems, deeper skill points, and more diverse builds, so that GEAR wouldn't be the main focus of the game anymore, but actual player skills instead?

Just my 2 cents.

"

BuDiu wrote:

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

BuDiu wrote:

....

. ....

dude item or gold or orb, all can be used as currency. It does not make a difference. Like you can consider an orb a currency to trade or a usable item to lets say, give you a respect point. Come on.. If you cant grasp this simple concept how are we gonna continue our great conversation!!! Flipping items / currency is part of any game economy. Thats A NORMAL THING. Similar concept stock trading.

that is only if said item is an established currency item like the soj or high runes in diablo 2, you didnt see people using random uniques for pricing items

i get where you are coming from , i know how flipping works.


the difference is in easy of flipping. an established currency can be manipulated so that every instance of that currency increases or decreases in value.

case in point all exalted will be worth around 36

but say unique item x might be 20 chaos where as a similar one with slightly different stats might be 10 chaos.

it is much harder to manipulate.


on the small scale such manipulations of individual items is fine and encouraged , it is when gold standard items have their value artificially inflated where the economy starts to break down

"

Quantume wrote:

You can't sell snow to eskimos.

If we would have a well designed economy, balanced drop rates, then players would be progressing on their own mainly by crafting and with self found gear/goods.
That would be our snow, so nobody could sell us anything, because we would already have it.

The game needs to turn off the gear check obsession.
Being cockblocked from end game content purely because one lacks gear which is rarer than winning a lottery, will lead only to one thing: what we have now, RMT farmers.

To the GGG team: How about you focus on a more dynamic combination of passives and gems, deeper skill points, and more diverse builds, so that GEAR wouldn't be the main focus of the game anymore, but actual player skills instead?

Just my 2 cents.

you can set the standard of gear anywhere and scum will always rmt to get that 1% more out of their gear.

asking for skill to be the focus of an arpg is absurd. this is poe, not dark souls, and it will never be anything like dark souls.

awww man path of dark souls would be sooo epic epic back flip and barrel roll spams and praising of many suns

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

"

vampirekid13 wrote:

dont be fooled into thinking POE has any more RMT than any other game.


all online games with an economy have RMT, d2, d3, wow are prime examples. tbh it doesnt bug me much at all. i just turn off trade chat unless i NEED to buy/sell something.

all those games had exploitable loop holes , one does not beat rmt , one only reduces the effects and apparent influence of rmt .

and there are many ways to do that.


1 dont make a game where people are dependent on trades
2 dont make a game where some currency can be made artificially scarce
3 dont gate items behind content because that generates scarcity and monopolies
4 dont add an ah because bots can be programmed to exploit it.
5 dont use a shit load of time wasting mechanics that favor gambling (because people would rather just pay money to get what they want than waste time and money for a low chance of getting what they want)
6 dont make it blatantly obvious that you are wasting peoples time (gambling makes it painfully apparent that you are wasting time). waste peoples time all sneaky like

you are asking for a "monochrome" game for a lack of a better word.

1. RPG games revolve greatly around trading. Its in the core of what these games should be like. Heavy trading to acquire wealth. Heavy grinding for leveling. And during that "leveling grind" is where you find currency / items to trade and build wealth. Thats in the core of how this game was designed to be like.

2. I agree that having some currency crazy rare like mirror for example, screams for people who pay to win to get a clear "advantage". Sadly, there is no solution on this one. If you make all orbs easy to find, the crafting system will completely break down at this point and all rare items will be worth almost nothing.

3. Gating items behind content is the SOLE reason why people run that content apart from basic leveling... Why farm maps when you can find koams from act1 normal? That is the only way to create any sort of expectancy from high end content...The game is supposed to have scarcity, but i agree that MONOPOLY can (CAN BUT ITS NOT 100%) be a problem.

4. totally agree. Trading systems that 100% require player interaction AND negotiation, is always the best option. But it creates alot more scamming and still allows for flipping. But is still the best option for sure.

5. I agree i dont like gambling, but its part of any RNG system. Its the ONLY way to assure that in a week the game wont be flooded with godly items. It needs to have both extremes for it to work that way.

6. Again, its not fair in a sense, because you dont see people flooding the forums like OMG 6 LINKED or OMG Chanced Koams. Because they dont care to share that in the forum. They are busy enjoying their new found wealth or item. But in the other hand, people are reaalllyyyyy quick to come make tons of posts to show how they wasted 3000 fusings without 6 Linking an item. Because they are now poor, have nothing left to do but come here and complain while they mourn their loss. It sucks alot it happened to me before. But thats how the system IS SUPPOSED TO WORK. And like i mentioned, you get a ridiculous amount of people that complain they failed, but you dont get to see the ridiculous amount of people who win big.

how to fix PoE "economy"
make exalted divines and eternals rain as much as alterations augments trasmutations chaos alchemy regret.
tadaa
remove every under lvl 50 unique from merciless , dont make it even drop there.
remove lowlvl weapons and armor from highlvl maps.
only lvl 50-60+ uniques dropping from maps (i rather have none drop at all then to loot an araku tiki in residence for example)

make an exalted orb recipe for ilvl78-80 items (if there isnt one already for those in the know probably)

all the latest patches introduce some kind of nonsense like pilgrim hats , santa backpack randomsupporter useless shitpack nobody gives two fucks about.

this means two things.
thing number one : they dont care about the economy
thing number two : they want to cash out before abandoning their project and moving into the mountains.
thinfoilhat theory : they are running RMT sites of their own and get a cut from random RMT sites in order to not ban the siteowners.

"

Kechop wrote:

how to fix PoE "economy"
make exalted divines and eternals rain as much as alterations augments trasmutations chaos alchemy regret.
tadaa
remove every under lvl 50 unique from merciless , dont make it even drop there.
remove lowlvl weapons and armor from highlvl maps.
only lvl 50-60+ uniques dropping from maps (i rather have none drop at all then to loot an araku tiki in residence for example)

make an exalted orb recipe for ilvl78-80 items (if there isnt one already for those in the know probably)

all the latest patches introduce some kind of nonsense like pilgrim hats , santa backpack randomsupporter useless shitpack nobody gives two fucks about.

this means two things.
thing number one : they dont care about the economy
thing number two : they want to cash out before abandoning their project and moving into the mountains.
thinfoilhat theory : they are running RMT sites of their own and get a cut from random RMT sites in order to not ban the siteowners.

Imo I think they have absolutely no idea how to fix rampant rmt without fundamentally changing the currency system they believe in so much so it's either a case of lallala I can't hear you and they pretend there is no rmt and their system is perfect and any problem is the player's problem not theirs or they feel like any cure would be worse than the disease.

RMT abuse comes from people not wanting to invest time in the game to obtain the items they want.