Amount of grinding in PoE, compared to Diablo 2
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Obviously, this game got a lot of it's inspiration from Diablo 2, which is simply the pinnacle of aRpg online gaming for most people.
Then why is it that in PoE, everything is a HUGE grind to get to the endgame? I really don't get it. Why does it take dozens and dozens of Ledge runs, Piety runs, Fellshrine runs, to get to endgame? How is this beneficial to anyone's game enjoyment? If you ask me, it's boring as hell. In D2 you could get to lvl 80 in a about a day if you rushed everything. This was a high enough lvl to do all the endgame content. After that, it just was about efficiency and aim for perfection of your character only. And if D2 proved one thing, it's that that's enough! It was actually a lot of fun, in a game where a lot of different character builds are possible, which PoE also is. Who ever played Diablo 2 and thought: "Hmmm... I really wish there was more grinding to 80. This grind is over way too fast." Let me tell you, 0 people, in the whole world. Efficiency and perfection was enough to aim for. And nobody got bored, if you did, you just tried a new character build. That's how I remember D2, and it was awesome fun. Who the hell at GGG thought it was a good idea to add a whole lot of Korean style grinding to that mix? GGG claims it want to recreate the feel of games like D2 gave you in the past. But then why do they completely re-arrange something that was close to perfect, and think they know it better? I really don't know how you can come to the conclusion that more brainless grinding is a good thing for your game. They basically took the Mona Lisa and painted a huge moustache on it. |
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D2 has a huge amount of grinding to hit end game as well. Like....a few weeks in general to max, months for a casual player. I know people who went years and never made a 99 character.
The process might be slightly different, not sure, since I havent rushed for a ladder like I did in D2 haydays, but I imagine its fairly similar in the amount of time needed to hit max level for PoE as it was in D2. The only difference is in D2, you had bots to carry you, while in this game there is not a bot game to join and be carried through. The end game map runs are random and finite, vs baal games are infinite and the boss is always in the same general direction. The maps also take some time since they vary and there is no real good reason to rush to boss, kill it and skip the mobs, while Baal was rushed. The whole thing is, D2 had immense amount of level griding, it was just faster and more effecient than in PoE. PoE is a much slower but deeper mechanically made game, catered more towards theory crafters and walkers over rushers with cookie cutter builds. 'It is good to contact a moderator if you feel someone is being a twat' Charan, Forum Moderator Sometimes, we have to cross a ditch. Sometimes, we have to cross an ocean.-Rhys, GGG Last edited by Zalm#4445 on Dec 23, 2013, 6:50:51 PM
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+1 on this. I loved being able to make a character, power level it to 80 within a couple of days and then focus on gearing it out by trading/farming bosses with a mf char. I could pump out a decently geared lvl 85 in about a week and had a blast with the character. If I got bored of the character or wanted to try different skills I would just make a new one.
I hope they increase the drop rates and XP gain so it is not so "hardcore". I am not talking about nerfing the game for casual newbs, but making it so self-found solo is FUN. I miss diablo 2.... Still don't understand why Blizzard hasn't just givin it a graphics update and re-release as some kind of "nostalgic event". Last edited by gump132#4874 on Dec 23, 2013, 6:53:01 PM
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D2 really didn't have an end game, or some form of actual progression. Yes, you could get to 80 fairly fast, even if no one rushed you, but then all you did was Baal runs, or Pindle/Eldritch/Baal, hoping to find certain uniques. Was that fun? Yes, in a way, but to me, it wasn't fun enough to level a character to 99. I usually stopped at 82-85, then did another character (and eventually I switched to HC and did the same there).
To me, it's not all that different from what I do, or plan to do, in PoE, except that there's something like an end game where I can run level x maps, then level x+1 maps, etc. But in both games you end up doing the same thing over and over, with your character only minimally improving anymore. The only difference is that in D2 you got to that point much faster. I don't really know if that's better, though. | |
" Simply not true. Did you even read my post? I wasn't talking about grinding to max lvl, I was talking about grinding to a high enough lvl to clear all the endgame content, aside from having geared up enough. Like I said, in Diablo this was about 80, and you could get there in about a day. No way you will ever pull this off in PoE. Before you are high enough lvl to do high lvl maps, it will be more like a week, even if there were bots to carry you. Now you might think a week isn't that much, but for somebody who doesn't have time to play all day, it's a LOT of time. Besides that, there is no reason for all this grinding. It has no purpose, it's just filler, and it isn't fun. So how you can ever defend it like "meh, it's fine" is beyond me, let alone liking it. |
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mf runs in d2 were soul destroying and most people eventually resorted to botting or shady trading through 3rd party sites, or worse.
it should only take about 14-20 hours of playtime to get to level 75 if you know what youre doing. IGN: Arlianth Check out my LA build: 1782214 Last edited by Nephalim#2731 on Dec 23, 2013, 6:58:00 PM
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" if you need to grind that long to get to the end game, youre doing something wrong. "The problem with scrubcore is that it is full of of scrubs"
- King Edward the Longshanks |
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I feel this same way. There's a lot in PoE that, put simply, takes too long to accomplish. Many defend it, saying it is "part of the difficulty" but I see nothing difficult about simply taking forever to accomplish anything.
You could have a lvl 85 in 2 hours when they added Uber Tristram and Mephisto's Hammerdin skeleton farm. You could target bosses for specific loot drops, like Shako from Meph, Stone of Jordan from Nightmare Andariel, or Grandfather from Pindleskin. You could actually profit from grinding. PoE, a game that is constantly updated with new skills and uniques, takes a disproportionate amount of time to "max" a character. In fact, some builds don't even open up until you acquire a certain amount of wealth. There is a lot PoE does right, but the drop rate is something they REALLY dropped the ball on. |
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" Even then, It took me a week to make my leap slam mara to 67 to use a kongors and that is effectively my end game. A week. Thats about how long it took me to grind to 80 in D2. Even in PoE, it takes me about 3 weeks to hit 80 with any build....most build, summoners and assistants are always slower. Its not that long, and if it takes you longer than 3 weeks to a month to hit 80, you might consider doing some more min maxing on passives, gear and skills. This is three weeks of 3 hours a day on average btw. And I would consider 70 to be end game here in PoE, since most end game gear maxes around 70 anyway. That cuts your time down considerably. 'It is good to contact a moderator if you feel someone is being a twat' Charan, Forum Moderator Sometimes, we have to cross a ditch. Sometimes, we have to cross an ocean.-Rhys, GGG Last edited by Zalm#4445 on Dec 23, 2013, 7:02:27 PM
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" You are right but I don't think that maps are much better than D2's "endgame". Granted, the map system is more fun and a better concept, but in the end you're just killing lots of random monsters and bosses, whether you do that in a "map" or somewhere in a D2 endgame area, like Baal, Cows, Halls of pain, whatever. And that's fine, zerging through mobs to find loot is fun. But getting to that point faster IS better, whether you call it true endgame or something else. You gotta ask yourself where the fun lies in the game, for you. For many people it's certainly not a long grind to max lvl. Experimenting with new character builds yes, but that's a seperate thing. You might as well grind and experiment at max lvl, where you can actually have the excitement of potentially finding good drops. That's what the whole game is about. |
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