Would you support a 6L Orb that cost X fusings?

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Peace_Frog wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

20k fusing was just an example , the more practical numbers would be 800 - 2000

Yet you stated earlier:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

the average link rate for 6l is between 800 and 950 , the consensus of camp one is a guaranteed link by 900 - 1500. that means it is equal to are greater than the average.

that was my opinion, other suggested more , and others still suggested less, that is what consensus means does it not.

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Peace_Frog wrote:

You want to force everyone to pay up to 2,000 Fusings just so the chances of you not getting one go down? How do you plan on fitting 2,000 Orbs of Fusing into your bags, and then into the vendor screen? Will they have to recode the stack size? Won't that cause imbalances? Don't you think they've put a lot of time and research into why they have stacks of orbs only go to ten or twenty?

As for the gambling comment, any opinions on the evils of gambling are null and void when you're talking about gambling in a video game. Honestly, the act of playing this game at all is more evil than gambling away virtual money that wasn't going to pay your rent or mortgage.

is it really ? gambling , be it in a game or in real life targets a very real flaw in human character , addiction. addiction is not a good thing. and who are you to say what happens in a video game will not have an effect in real life? dont invalidate my opinion simply because you dont agree with it.

and for the love of god , its just a god damn number dude , easily changed , easily modified
please dont get hung up on teh details when its the concept that needs discussion Implore you dont turn into Sinnesteuer.

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

And no, RNG is not "gambling". You use an Orb that specifies exactly what it does on an item with the random chance that the results are what you want them to be. You still have the item, you are out the Orb.

RNG is gambling, as it was defined in Diablo 2. And there's nothing wrong with that. However, defining what "gambling" is or isn't in PoE isn't what this conversation is about.

Including a recipe for 6L gear might be the fair thing to do for every player. But it would absolutely kill the feel of this game. This game is about scraping by, not being or having the best. The goal is not to have the best gear in every slot. The goal is to get through the game and into maps with whatever you can find or afford to trade for. They don't want the best gear to be available to everybody. Players are going to have to learn to deal with this truth, or find another game to play.

I heard most of the new Wii-U games are really, really easy. Maybe look into some of those.

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Peace_Frog wrote:

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Sinnesteuer wrote:

And no, RNG is not "gambling". You use an Orb that specifies exactly what it does on an item with the random chance that the results are what you want them to be. You still have the item, you are out the Orb.

RNG is gambling, as it was defined in Diablo 2. And there's nothing wrong with that. However, defining what "gambling" is or isn't in PoE isn't what this conversation is about.

Including a recipe for 6L gear might be the fair thing to do for every player. But it would absolutely kill the feel of this game. This game is about scraping by, not being or having the best. The goal is not to have the best gear in every slot. The goal is to get through the game and into maps with whatever you can find or afford to trade for. They don't want the best gear to be available to everybody. Players are going to have to learn to deal with this truth, or find another game to play.

I heard most of the new Wii-U games are really, really easy. Maybe look into some of those.

your logic makes no sense , how is getting a lucky 6l in 10 fusing scrapping by?

and again , how do you come to that conclusion , if a player plays enough THEY WILL GET A 6L

the destination for those willing to put the time in , is a foregone conclusion , what we want to address is the inconsistency in the journey


if i get 3000 fusing , i could buy a 6l , oh wow so hard , i could by one in half that , so hard . its not the whole argument that 6l is hard to get is completely undone by trading.

it is total bull shit logic

something that would make the quality permanent, so you wont lose 20% everytime you fuse it. but this would probably be worth around 2-3 exalts each.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

is it really ? gambling , be it in a game or in real life targets a very real flaw in human character , addiction. addiction is not a good thing. and who are you to say what happens in a video game will not have an effect in real life? dont invalidate my opinion simply because you dont agree with it.

Gambling away fake money in a video game is less destructive to a person than playing the video game in the first place. I don't invalidate your opinion because I disagree with it, it invalidated itself as soon as you said it. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact, and a wrong one at that.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

who are you to say what happens in a video game will not have an effect in real life?

Actually, I'm clearly getting trolled. I'm done with this conversation. Have fun hunting for that elusive 6L gear!

Yes. I don't like the rng part in the process. Make it hard, expensive, but don't make it random ffs :(

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Peace_Frog wrote:

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

is it really ? gambling , be it in a game or in real life targets a very real flaw in human character , addiction. addiction is not a good thing. and who are you to say what happens in a video game will not have an effect in real life? dont invalidate my opinion simply because you dont agree with it.

Gambling away fake money in a video game is less destructive to a person than playing the video game in the first place. I don't invalidate your opinion because I disagree with it, it invalidated itself as soon as you said it. It's not even an opinion, it's a fact, and a wrong one at that.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

who are you to say what happens in a video game will not have an effect in real life?

Actually, I'm clearly getting trolled. I'm done with this conversation. Have fun hunting for that elusive 6L gear!

really , you are gona drop a bomb on me than walk away. dont straw man me and walk away triumphantly when you never really addressed my argument.

how does my opinion invalidate its self , where is this established fact .

you base your argument on your own assumptions , like they are the law of the land , and addiction is an addiction, be it video games , gambling or drugs, they ALL have a real impact on life ,

just look no further than farmville to see how much of an impact a video game can have on people.

and there are plenty of studies that prove that fact .

FYI: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01539183

Gambling in-game, and playing video games, are at the very least related to each other. So you can't ignore the data, now, can you?

So let me get this straight: we should be allowed to buy 6L gear because gambling is bad for you. But we'll leave Orbs of Fusing in the game, in case people want to gamble for a 6L instead. That's like someone telling you that menthol cigarettes are bad for you, while smoking a non-menthol cigarette.

You can't use morality as a means of telling someone why a mechanic shouldn't be present in a game, unless you suggest removing the mechanic entirely. If you're going to say that gambling is bad, so we should get to buy the gear, then why not take it a step further and propose removing Orbs of Fusing? Then you could make the argument to remove every orb that generates a random output. And say that every enemy should drop a scripted piece of loot, especially bosses.

This stuff isn't available to everyone, unless you have the time to invest to get it. I don't. But I can also clear maps just fine with my single 5L piece, and zero worthwhile uniques.

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CantripN wrote:

FYI: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01539183

Gambling in-game, and playing video games, are at the very least related to each other. So you can't ignore the data, now, can you?

The only data this provides is that video gamers may be more aggressive gamblers. Nothing more. Were they using their own money, or fake money given to them for the test? Might that have affected the results of the testing? It didn't even say anything about gambling in video games, only that they used a video Blackjack machine to conduct the test. Try googling a little harder next time.

FACT: Gambling in a video game is less destructive than playing the game in which you are allowed to gamble in the first place.
FACT: Turning off the video game will yield 0% time spent gambling in said video game.
FACT: Gambling in a video game is not destructive by itself, as you're not using real money.
FACT: If you have a gambling problem, Path of Exile will be a bad influence on your recovery process.

Leave 6L and Fusings the way they are.

sure if you only look at the negative effects in the terms of a materialistic view.

sure gambling with fake money doesnt hurt anyone.

but the reason why people hate gambling and why they call it evil, has nothing to do with material concepts.

gambling like all addictions effects people, it can change their behavior and motivations .



"
Then you could make the argument to remove every orb that generates a random output. And say that every enemy should drop a scripted piece of loot, especially bosses."


yeah i probably can , but i can also argue the exact opposite.

there is a large difference between linking items , and using orbs to roll new stats.

rolling the stats of an item wont prevent you from using said item, it will just make it more or less appealing , but you can still wear the gear. roll fusing will most certainly make or break your build .

because unlike stats on items , skills are more directly tied to the character. and the effectiveness of your build is greatly augmented by links

and so what if you can run maps fine with 5l or 4l . so can I , that never was the point though. the point never was to make 6l easier , which is why im saying you people are straw manning us .

you falsely believe we want 6l easier, when what we really want is nothing more than consistency. we want it consistently difficult for everyone. because the linking system is far more interwoven into the identity of a character than their various item affixed
80% of which will be a combination of life resists and defensive mods.

it makes no sense that some people will gain such great benefit of what is a core and basic mechanic while others have to struggle for no reason.