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xBODOMxDISCIPLEx wrote:
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Warzone129 wrote:
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xBODOMxDISCIPLEx wrote:
Without cleaver construction certain things will destroy them before they are able to freeze. And a 4L is needed if you plan on doing anything above docks trash.
So, glad you know what your talking about.
LOL yes come here talking trash when you are the one who doesn't know what theya re talking about.
With a lvl 16 gem im prema freezing 78 map bosses with a 3 link.
So maybe stop talking shit.
I'm sorry, I was unaware you played in dumpster league (although I admit I should have known)
In leagues where dying actually matters, you need a 4L for a completely reliable freeze. This isn't some new thing, people have been tinkering with this for awhile.
And without cleaver construction, your traps get destroyed and your freeze is unreliable.
Now go back to believing you know everything about it since you have been doing it for a day or whatever.
Dammit guys.
IGN: SplitEpimorphism
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Posted bysyrioforel#7028on Dec 22, 2013, 3:22:52 AM
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syrioforel wrote:
They know nothing
Dear GGG, please make Mac version
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Posted byTeridax#1878on Dec 22, 2013, 3:27:55 AM
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xBODOMxDISCIPLEx wrote:
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Warzone129 wrote:
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xBODOMxDISCIPLEx wrote:
Without cleaver construction certain things will destroy them before they are able to freeze. And a 4L is needed if you plan on doing anything above docks trash.
So, glad you know what your talking about.
LOL yes come here talking trash when you are the one who doesn't know what theya re talking about.
With a lvl 16 gem im prema freezing 78 map bosses with a 3 link.
So maybe stop talking shit.
I'm sorry, I was unaware you played in dumpster league (although I admit I should have known)
In leagues where dying actually matters, you need a 4L for a completely reliable freeze. This isn't some new thing, people have been tinkering with this for awhile.
And without cleaver construction, your traps get destroyed and your freeze is unreliable.
Now go back to believing you know everything about it since you have been doing it for a day or whatever.
Please no hateful posts :(.
This message was delivered by GGG defence force.
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Posted bymazul#2568on Dec 22, 2013, 4:40:58 AM
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I_NO wrote:
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Delmas wrote:
nerfs are coming to this. probably on the elemental prolif side of things. fairly certain of this.
No that's fucking dumb you would break other builds then in a cross fire.
It actually is the only possible fix. Should Freeze Mine be unable to freeze white mobs without any cold-resistance? Because that is the only thing Freeze Mine does, it doesn't freeze bosses, thats what Proliferation does. And actually the only thing Proliferation should do is transfer the initial setup to other mobs nearby. So if you hit a white with a Cold-Pen/Pro-Lif Freeze-Mine basically nearby mobs would get hit by Cold-Pen too, so the freeze is calculated in the same way.
The only thing that would get fixed by this is that you can't target enemies weak to fire and spread an insane burning-dot to enemies more resistant to fire, which would never be hit by such a dot if targetted directly. So thats actually the same abuse as with freeze-mine and if they fix it, they should fix them all.
Of course you could deny Freeze Mine the ability to even freeze white mobs without any cold-resistance... but well you could also just remove the skill.
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Posted byEmphasy#0545on Dec 22, 2013, 7:38:24 AM
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Emphasy wrote:
It actually is the only possible fix. Should Freeze Mine be unable to freeze white mobs without any cold-resistance? Because that is the only thing Freeze Mine does, it doesn't freeze bosses, thats what Proliferation does. And actually the only thing Proliferation should do is transfer the initial setup to other mobs nearby. So if you hit a white with a Cold-Pen/Pro-Lif Freeze-Mine basically nearby mobs would get hit by Cold-Pen too, so the freeze is calculated in the same way.
The only thing that would get fixed by this is that you can't target enemies weak to fire and spread an insane burning-dot to enemies more resistant to fire, which would never be hit by such a dot if targetted directly. So thats actually the same abuse as with freeze-mine and if they fix it, they should fix them all.
Of course you could deny Freeze Mine the ability to even freeze white mobs without any cold-resistance... but well you could also just remove the skill.
Though, there is a huge difference between stopping a group of mobs from making any progress, and one that just simply want to see everything burn before their eyes. The mobs will still come after you as they get burned, while frozen mobs........stay frozen.
Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016
Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Dec 22, 2013, 7:49:18 AM
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Posted byJohnNamikaze#6516on Dec 22, 2013, 7:48:54 AMValued Poster
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JohnNamikaze wrote:
Though, there is a huge difference between stopping a group of mobs from making any progress, and one that just simply want to see everything burn before their eyes. The mobs will still come after you as they get burned, while frozen mobs........stay frozen.
While that's true it isn't the point.
The mechanic is the exact same. You can't fix one without the other. The mechanic is that you can hit enemies exspecially weak to a certain element to create a status-effect that is quite impressing and transfer it to other mobs which might have a higher resistance and would never have gotten a such impressive effect if targeted directly.
If they want to fix freeze-mine without changing burn they would need to change the burning-mechanic which would be a huge nerf, since right now burning double-dips resistance (which is normally negative), since a low resistance increases the hit that sets the target on fire and a low resistance increases the burning-damage. So if burning-damage is always calculated on the theoretical hit that creates the effect instead of the real damage dealt it would be unaffected by EP since it can do exactly this. This would buff Burning-Damage against high resistance targets and nerf it against low-resistance targets.
And while for freeze-duration the HP of a certain enemy matters it does not for burning. So the main change is that Ele-Proliferation would check the applied the damage against each enemies HP seperatly instead of just applying the same duration to each of them. This would not change anything for burning, because burning-damage doesn't care about enemy hp. So the only change would be that all monsters resistance matters and not only the resistance of the mob you initially set on fire and I doubt that will totally kill all burning-proliferation builds.
PS: Actually a lot of mobs do flee while burning, mostly animals and humanoids
Last edited by Emphasy#0545 on Dec 22, 2013, 8:04:58 AM
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Posted byEmphasy#0545on Dec 22, 2013, 8:04:21 AM
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Here's some copypasta from the other thread, identical to this one. You know, the one where we already discussed this. Like, before, in the past.
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CanHasPants wrote:
I don't take issue with anything that trivializes bosses. At least not any more. The stun nerf was irksome when it happened, yet GGG insists upon allowing portal spam and alt+f4 while a friend keeps the instance open, for exactly that reason: to trivialize boss fights, as to encourage more build diversity, by allowing builds inherently weak versus a boss the means to defeat them.
Portal spam + alt f4 is okay, but stun and (presumably) freeze mine arent? What I take issue with now, is the lack of consistency in design principles. Either trivialize bosses, or don't. Some 50/50 compromise, allowing certain things to trivialize them, but not others, it doesn't accomplish anything except trivialize some player tools but not others. All it does is reinforce the competitive advantage for players with better performing hardware, as an alt f4 or portal from the player with the best gaming hardware, represents a negligible time loss, compared to the player with the worst gaming hardware, which represents a severely imposing time loss. If GGG wants to trivialize boss fights as a concept of their design, then these skills are nothing more than equalizers. If GGG want to nerf some things that trivialize boss fights, then nerf them all--only allow players a one-time entrance to a boss instance. Die, alt f4 or portal out, then you need to start a new instance.
Consistency.
Edit: I just wanted to add: I am unbiased on the matter. I have never build a permastunner, and I have never used freeze mine a single time since I started playing. I have no invested interest in preventing this tactic from being nerfed. I just take issue with the acceptance that some things are okay if they trivialize a boss fight, but other things.. Oh no, they're a serious problem and need fixed right away! Bull shit.
Devolving Wilds
Land
“T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.”
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Posted byCanHasPants#3515on Dec 22, 2013, 11:07:07 AM
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Until the 700k dps of dischargers is fixed no other builds need apply.
Although you do need a 4 link for that i.e frenzy,multi hit,stun endro and power on crit = 9 charges in 1 second.
Also those who say scrubcore i say altF4core players dont even lose exp.And selffound standard is the true hardcore play(by hardcore i mean being dedicated).
"Blue warrior shot the food" Last edited by maxor#5545 on Dec 22, 2013, 11:20:51 AM
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Posted bymaxor#5545on Dec 22, 2013, 11:20:09 AM
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Warzone129 wrote:
So most of u have seen the videos of freeze mine permafreezing 78 map bosses and I thought that was broken enough as it is when I thought that the group needed a dedicated trapper
But no..............
Apparently all u need is a 3 link. Freeze mine/Elemetanl proliferation/Cold penetration
and with a lvl 16 freeze mine (that's right not even lvl 20) im perma freezing everything in the game with 0 points and gear invested into traps or freezing.
If this is not the most broken thing in poe I don't know what is. Did anyone bother to do any testing whatsoever on this gem? Lvling an empower to put in a 4 link now to see if u can perma freeze bosses without needed white mobs but using blues instead.
What's the video called? could you possibly link it?
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Posted bySwiftD7#2246on Dec 22, 2013, 2:50:46 PM
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Don't nerf anything, I have to (ab)use this! ^^
I play solo as excuse, you need every (dirty) advantage if you play PoE this way, especialy when you play selffound.
However, it just sounds fair to feeze enemies, mobs can also freeze you pretty often, even with max cold resists (Act 3 Archives for instance). Assuming mobs also only have 5% basic crit chance to trigger freeze status, they must use some unfair advantages compared to the players.
Well, OK there are Unique Items that prevent freezing but this does not count. having max cold resists should have at least some effect imho.
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Posted byFusion_Power#0294on Dec 22, 2013, 3:48:20 PM
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