Barrage - TERRIBLE! Or am I missing something?

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raics wrote:

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LightningWarp1 wrote:

Reave was never terrible at first glance. 20% more area at each stage combined with stacked attack speed is obviously strong.

To me it was never terrible either, I loved the skill since first glance and I still do, it just has so much options available and, ultimately, it just feels different to use, and different is good here. I'd take losing stacks over boring damage penalty anytime.

However, the forum was overflowing with 'reave is crap' threads for weeks.

You realize the forums were overflowing because in the first couple of weeks, while Reave was granting extra radius, it was doing no damage in said radius due to another wonderful bug.

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Zealflare wrote:

You sound confused. I said I, and many others, see it as a CoC type skill, and that it sucks as a main single target ability to the likes of Frenzy/Siphon due to its mechanics and damage effectiveness/speed penalty. Your statement does not change that, and since when was it stated that it was created purely for CoC? I don't see that anywhere on the 1.0.3 video, I don't see that in the patch notes, and I certainly don't see any GGG comment stating that it was created with CoC in mind.

If anything, it was supposed to be a tribute to D2's Strafe, which I don't ever remember having anything to do with CoC. You can have an opinion like everyone else, but don't make that as some kind of fact. It isn't. Feel free to find a GGG quote that actually states this.

Well, I'm not confused. You said it was a weak stand-alone skill, which it is not meant to be used as. I said that it is simply a build enabler, much like Facebreaker, Soul Mantle, and Shavronne's Wrappings.

The fact that it has multiple projectiles and has the capability of either hitting a single target or a packed mob, depending on the range. If the attack crits, each one of those projectiles crit. Combine Barrage, Quillrain, ~600% chance to crit, and you'll cast spells rapidly.

I don't think GGG is going to tell everyone the best combinations of each skill gem, so why are you asking me to find GGG saying such things?

As well as cast on crit, it works really nicely with life gain on hit too. Many builds rely on life leech or LGoH on multiple targets to stay alive. If you're trying to tank a high-dmg single enemy (like a boss), then using barrage instead of Ele hit could add a lot to your survivability, since you get a lot more hits per attack.

Also note that GMP doesn't decrease the overall numerical dps, so you can load in GMP and LGoH and just tank whatever you want.

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Natharias wrote:

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Zealflare wrote:

You sound confused. I said I, and many others, see it as a CoC type skill, and that it sucks as a main single target ability to the likes of Frenzy/Siphon due to its mechanics and damage effectiveness/speed penalty. Your statement does not change that, and since when was it stated that it was created purely for CoC? I don't see that anywhere on the 1.0.3 video, I don't see that in the patch notes, and I certainly don't see any GGG comment stating that it was created with CoC in mind.

If anything, it was supposed to be a tribute to D2's Strafe, which I don't ever remember having anything to do with CoC. You can have an opinion like everyone else, but don't make that as some kind of fact. It isn't. Feel free to find a GGG quote that actually states this.

Well, I'm not confused. You said it was a weak stand-alone skill, which it is not meant to be used as. I said that it is simply a build enabler, much like Facebreaker, Soul Mantle, and Shavronne's Wrappings.

The fact that it has multiple projectiles and has the capability of either hitting a single target or a packed mob, depending on the range. If the attack crits, each one of those projectiles crit. Combine Barrage, Quillrain, ~600% chance to crit, and you'll cast spells rapidly.

I don't think GGG is going to tell everyone the best combinations of each skill gem, so why are you asking me to find GGG saying such things?

ahhhh hi. that's my build... gmp only adds 4 projectiles so better with chain (unless single target but that is still counter intuitive because then your spells will cast multiples but at lower damage. therefore forced to use spells like fireball or arctic breath which are meh...) overall you are better off using a wand with high crit.. oh and it's not on cast but on hit for crit calculation with this gem...

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Owtwem wrote:

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raics wrote:

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LightningWarp1 wrote:

Reave was never terrible at first glance. 20% more area at each stage combined with stacked attack speed is obviously strong.

To me it was never terrible either, I loved the skill since first glance and I still do, it just has so much options available and, ultimately, it just feels different to use, and different is good here. I'd take losing stacks over boring damage penalty anytime.

However, the forum was overflowing with 'reave is crap' threads for weeks.

You realize the forums were overflowing because in the first couple of weeks, while Reave was granting extra radius, it was doing no damage in said radius due to another wonderful bug.

Of course, and I think we pretty much exhausted the 'reave whine' subject on following pages, you're very welcome to read it.

About barrage...
Anyone tried dual-wielding it? Alternates hands or uses main only?

they are alternate. just tested so pretty sure...

Has anyone tested Point Blank with it already ?
(as a single, close range skill)

Was expecting to use it in my RoA build to roll over rares/uniques mobs :p

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Natharias wrote:

Well, I'm not confused. You said it was a weak stand-alone skill, which it is not meant to be used as. I said that it is simply a build enabler, much like Facebreaker, Soul Mantle, and Shavronne's Wrappings.

The fact that it has multiple projectiles and has the capability of either hitting a single target or a packed mob, depending on the range. If the attack crits, each one of those projectiles crit. Combine Barrage, Quillrain, ~600% chance to crit, and you'll cast spells rapidly.

I don't think GGG is going to tell everyone the best combinations of each skill gem, so why are you asking me to find GGG saying such things?

And you know this, because...?

We were clearly shown, on the 1.0.3 video, that Barrage was a new skill, focused heavily on multi-hit single target with minor potential for a narrow cone aoe. Several of us tried it out like we would use skills like Frenzy and Power Siphon (AKA as a single target ability), and were disappointed BUT noting its potential as a CoC skill. Then you come along with that "it was not meant to be a standalone skill" like its some kind of fact that we should accept. Did you develop the skill? Was there a statement from the Barrage GGG dev on its "intended purpose"? No.

Kindly explain why a "CoC build enabling gem" gets "increased physical damage" on lvl up instead of "increased spell damage" then? Are you now going the extra mile and say "Barrage was meant to be a CoC Ethereal Knifes build enabling skill, since the increase physical damage benefits EK too!"?

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Just because your "ideal" of the Barrage skill is as such, does not make the complains of the people who actually tried out the skill and got disappointed any less valid. It has potential as a CoC ability, is a bad stand alone single target like Frenzy/Siphon. Period.

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valarhexile wrote:

Has anyone tested Point Blank with it already ?
(as a single, close range skill)

Was expecting to use it in my RoA build to roll over rares/uniques mobs :p

lvl 76 Point Blank physical bow ranger here, with the same amount of links I can get way more efficient killing speed with RoA/frenzy than with Barrage. I would even argue that RoA flat out beats Frenzy unless you get more than 3 charges.

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Zealflare wrote:

Are you now going the extra mile and say "Barrage was meant to be a CoC Ethereal Knifes build enabling skill, since the increase physical damage benefits EK too!"?

Well, he couldn't say that even if he wanted to, because it wouldn't be true.

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Zealflare wrote:

I would even argue that RoA flat out beats Frenzy unless you get more than 3 charges.

It does beat frenzy, except for single targets.

I started a Duelist to use PB+Chin Sol. Just killed Piety and she died relly quick, doens't say much though since it was only normal and using Deaths Harp. The life gain on hit is pretty amazing though with 9 projectiles(Deaths harp+GMP) I'm pretty much at full life all the time. However only rares survive more than 2 barrages.


I think the spread at long range is to low. Barrage works great for single target but it's pretty crappy for groups of mobs. I think ROC/Split arrow+Barrage might be a interesting combo.

It might be suitable for a bit tankier archer to by using Mom and mana on hit items.

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Zealflare wrote:

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valarhexile wrote:

Has anyone tested Point Blank with it already ?
(as a single, close range skill)

Was expecting to use it in my RoA build to roll over rares/uniques mobs :p

lvl 76 Point Blank physical bow ranger here, with the same amount of links I can get way more efficient killing speed with RoA/frenzy than with Barrage. I would even argue that RoA flat out beats Frenzy unless you get more than 3 charges.

Single target or regular mobs?