MF is the only difficulty slider in this game

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Rocksteady85 wrote:

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Appren wrote:

MF is working as intended, I see no reason to change it. If you do not wish to sacrifice some stats for at least a bit of MF, then that is your choice. I rarely run high MF these days (did the whole low life sporker thing when it was hot), the one I play most has like 30 IIQ 100 IIR. If you want to make a build that rely on a lot of specific uniques that reduce your chance of adding MF, then that is your choice.

And how it is intended to work conflicts with the very idea of ARPGs which is leveling up and making very powerful characters that can slaughter entire screens of monsters.

In order to make such a character you need MF which means you don't have a very powerful character and even after you have found all the gear that makes a very powerful character you still don't use it because there's still tonnes of potential to continue building wealth and find loads more good items for Alts.

1) How many Diablo 2 players do you know who stopped using Wartrav, Shako , Occu , Gheeds etc. You could have 500 high runes and every unique in the game x 5 but you still wouldn't remove specific items unless doing PvP because doing more damage is never worth the huge decrease in drops/wealth.

People keep calling it a choice but it really isn't, any rational player that cares about the amount of time they invest into a game also cares about efficiency and will use MF.

2) Piety on average drops 15 rares for me with my IIR gear on, without it the average is about 4, sometimes just 2-3. The same kind of numbers apply to every zone and maps especially which are just useless without any IIR. What reason do i have to ever upgrade my gear and do more DPS, even if i doubled my DPS and cleared twice as fast i'd still only be finding half as much and the game would be less rewarded and feel even more grindy.

Tell me, where is the choice there because i don't see it.


Playing an ARPG with an MF system without any MF gear is like eating a bowl of soup with a fork instead of a spoon, your just wasting your time basically.

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vvooee wrote:

goldwyrms for me isnt as good as rare boots with movespeed,iir, 30% movespeed is just so good and then theres all the rest of the stats you can roll on em after those 2.

my boots atm but thats the worst item/slot i have atm for my build, would have way better boots but only with 20% speed and that 10% is HUGE :D

And its all a matter of oppinion.

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NotRegret wrote:

Magic Find
Damage Per Second
Survability


Most builds can only support 2 out of these 3 things.

The only builds that can do all 3 well require insanely expensive gear.

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MwHighlander wrote:

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bluefalcon74 wrote:

You have better gear in your stash, but you're not using it because you want to find better gear?

Its a catch-22 and is the biggest problems with most ARPG's


Its a bad idea that stuck and doesn't seem to be dying.

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zamraii wrote:

This game is balanced towards players that grind at least several hours a day every day, with iir and iiq stacked.

I've been running a lot of maps recently. They are 66-70 rare maps with around 80-120 total iiq and my 130 iir. On average I get around 15-20 yellow items per map, sometimes 1 or 2 uniques. And guess what: THEY ARE ALL CRAP. Maybe one rare item of 500 have some decent mods on it. Rest is junk for a vendor.

If having decent iir and iiq is giving such results imagine running all this stuff without them. Grinding end-game with no iir and iiq in Path of Exile is a waste of time. I hate MF so much and I hate the fact one is forced to stack it, unless he enjoys crapton of whites on the ground.

So OP is right about the true difficulty in this game. Having gear that makes end-game easy is worthless - it needs to be gear with decent MF. Only then true end-game farming can begin.

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1) A lot of them, actually.
For sorc, full tal set has at least 3 times the durability of the generic mf items and about 40% more damage and doesn't have to deal with immunities since it is perfect for running a dual-ele spec while still maintaining high damage, resulting in an insane amount of killspeed increase.
For Bowzon, they mostly just wear war travelers, which some even want the LOWEST mf roll.
Many physical chars also don't want any mf at all, because white items in diablo 2 can be very valuable. In PoE, only a handful of white items (unless already 5/6 linked) has a tiny value because you can try chancing them into voltaxic/soul taker/etc.

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2) In your example, the character with twice the killspeed would have gotten double the amount of exp and up to double the amount of currency, depending how much IIQ is lost.

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Maelthor wrote:

I've been playing ARPG's since Diablo 1, and one thing that I just don't get, is why MF as a item stat needs to be in these games at all. PoE has taken it to the extent that the entire endgame is itemized using MF as the variable to control difficulty. Why is that? Can't a difficult encounter or zone be difficult because the monsters are hard to kill and deal lots of damage? Shouldn't gear/builds/skill be the deciding factor? Basically, shouldn't the guy with the biggest stick and the strongest armour kill the boss easier?

Alas no...doesn't work that way at all.

Let me use an example from last night to explain where i'm coming from. I have a LA ranger, I play basically self-found or I do the odd trade between my RL friends when we party together, so I am not going around with auction house type gear. But that being said, I do ok when I spec for dps. about 10k frenzy, 2k LA, I have 3500 life, capped resists, yadda yadda yadda. Sadly, I have only 30% iir and no iiq except I can weapon swap to a cull stick and finish off a mob with the iir/iiq gems. But basically i'm going around killing 99% of mobs with 30 iir. As anyone knows who has ran with that level of mf vs say, even 100+ iir and 30-50 iiq, the difference is incomparable. It's like playing two different games. With the former you are in a wasteland, the latter, it's christmas every day. So ok, you are saying, just get more mf. And so I did, I played gear tetris to try and swap to a bunch of stuff like Goldwyrm and Aursize and also a couple rings with mf on them, but guess what happens? I lose hundreds of life, I lose a ton of evade/armour, I struggle to cap resists, and my frenzy dps drops by 2000. I've nerfed my own character to the point where the same dungeon I ran yesterday with ease is now considerably more dangerous.

So I ask...why? I have better gear sitting in my stash! Way better, perfectly optimized gear with no mf on it. When am I going to use it? Never, except maybe if I hop into a public game with someone who is the designated mf culler. Makes no sense to me. So now I have to try and find gear that does the same thing my other gear did, only also has mf on it....

Back in diablo2 it was the same, I'd to meph/baal/pindle runs etc wearing 600 mf worth of gear and find great stuff that I would put in my stash for later, and later never came, because it had no mf on it. Silly.

And then there are Maps. The entire Map system is based on trying to manipulate the variables on what is basically a magic item, so that it has enough iiq bonus on it to make it worth running, while not having lethal variables that will kill you with your crappy mf gear on. Same idea basically. Using mf as a difficulty slider.

I don't know why GGG doesn't just scrap mf as an item stat, make encounters difficult based on their level, make drops balanced according to the difficulty of said encounters and let us wade into battle with the gear that kills things fastest and keeps us alive the longest.

Anyway that's my $0.00002 :)