Mortal Conviction change the damn "less"

I like scroties idea for the support-gem this would actually make true bloodmagic something special again.

The basic problem is that anything involving BM needs to factor in 3 things:

1. Solo-BM player
2. Group-BM player
3. Shavronnes

Shavronnes isn't as big a problem since if you actually take the BM passiv you need to invest into a reasonable Life-Pool and Life-Regeneration or crazy leech and Vaal Pact. Since you can't go Ghost Reaver because you would drop your HP with Skills it isn't better than using Mana and many propably won't do it.

A bigger problem is Group vs. Solo. Buffing BM without Auras like giving it more HP or something crazy would make BM reasonable for Solo players since they get a benefit for not being able to run auras. The group player however would get a bonus and still have access to auras.

So either the Bloodmagic benefits need to actually allow some amount of Aura-Usage (the best thing still is giving the player a certain amount of free Reservation, although there are some problems with that) or give BM other benefits but allow them to make the choice to not benefit from Auras at all.

When Bloodmagic actually offers something, since it already has the large drawback of Auras are screwing you the BM gem wouldn't be any problem. And 40% reservation is propably enough, since you can fit one 60% Aura in it without passivs with reduced mana gem. Even a bit more when Mortal Conviction still does the same. With all passivs AH and PG you could fit two 60% Auras in it and still have 25% Reservation left for a third 60% Aura (as one example all 3 damage-auras).

So the basic problem about MC propably is that there are so many ways to reduce reservation for Auras that any increase would create very awkward situations.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Gravethought wrote:

Can't balance blood magic when blood magic gem exists. Period.

I take that as a personal challenge.

Here's what I would try (in Alpha first!) if I had unlimited dev power:
Blood Mana - Red support gem
Mana Cost Multiplier: 200%
Converts a portion of the cost for supported skills from mana to life.
Level, Conversion
1, 60%
2, 61%
3, 62%
4, 63%
5, 64%
6, 65%
7, 66%
8, 67%
9, 68%
10, 69%
11, 70%
12, 71%
13, 72%
14, 73%
15, 74%
16, 75%
17, 76%
18, 77%
19, 78%
20, 79%

So a skill that costs 100 mana, when supported by a level 20 Blood Mana gem, would cost 42 mana and 158 Life per use; a 60% aura supported by level 20 Blood Mana and Reduced Mana gems would reserve 68% life and 17% mana.

This would make Blood Magic semi-exclusive, while still giving builds with mana issues way to partially resolve their mana problems by paying life instead.

I win. You just changed the blood magic gem to a blood mana gem, meaning blood magic gem no longer exists!

But seriously thats a major nerf to blood magic gem, at level one you are paying 80% of the mana you would have w/o the support. At level 20, 42%. At that point I'd say just remove the damn gem.

But there's the point. Blood magic keystone is always going to be bad as long as it's gem counterpart gives so much more power.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Z_Fighters wrote:

If any one has any solid justification for this bull**** please fill me in. Maybe I am just ****ing stupid and missed something OBVIOUS about this. so please fill me in.

First off, you're allowed to swear. (Just don't insult other people; you can insult ideas all you want.)

Second, if they make Mortal Conviction too strong — such as using "reduced" — some niche, weird, degenerate builds become possible. Like stacking every single aura in the entire game on life, all with a huge Increase to Auras Cast by You, protected by Shavronne's Wrappings to ensure survivability. Running every single aura super-buffed would make for a very strong support build (think Culling MF on crack) which we really don't want to see in the game.

Rather than give MC a rather small amount of reduction, GGG gave it a large amount of "less" — so that if MC is the only aura node one takes, it has the maximum benefit, but it doesn't combo with the "reduced" nodes in an efficient manner.

So, in other words, MC is the way it is for much the same reason that CWDT got nerfed — not so much because of the common usage (Enduring Cry, Molten Shell), but because of very niche OP shit (using CWDT Discharge to kill Merciless Dominus while AFK). The only difference is that GGG saw the potential OP and never released MC in an abusable form.

Sorry, but to be honest that's how most skills get nerfed, not because of the first situation which comes to mind, but because of the top 1% of OP shit possible which almost no one uses, but breaks the game in half for the few who do find it.

There are builds out there already that can run 11 auras.

Having 1% of people with gear like shav and prism break the game through aura stacking is not important, because they will break it in any other way possible, it's not really important whether it's aura stacking or not.

Balancing a game around 2 uniques that only a handful of people have it utter nonsense.

Compare with Reduced Mana. It's only 10% off at level 1 and maxes at about 30% off as opposed to about 60% off. That's what this kind of support gem should be competing with.

Number adjustments are also possible without changing the core concept; for example, 40% off at level 1 scaling to 78% off at level 20. You get that by simply adding 10 to all conversion values.

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Gravethought wrote:

But seriously thats a major nerf to blood magic gem, at level one you are paying 80% of the mana you would have w/o the support. At level 20, 42%. At that point I'd say just remove the damn gem.

If BM gem would have shared costs, characters would have to be specced into mana passives anyway. It means, especially considering any multiplication of costs, that not counting few extreme situation, there will be no point in using it, because if you need some mana to run it, you can as well exchange it with Mana Leech (and even this only for ele/conversion builds as for physical, mana leech on gear is quite sufficient).

The gain from use of BM gem, is that you don't need to take any mana passives and any mana mods on gear. It it will be removed, you can as well remove this gem.

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tmaciak wrote:

The gain from use of BM gem, is that you don't need to take any mana passives and any mana mods on gear. It it will be removed, you can as well remove this gem.

Bullshit. Cutting mana costs by 60% means that a build with no mana passive shouldn't have any more mana issues than a build with an effective 150% increase to regen. That's a significant passive point savings. If you want to ignore mana completely you take the keystone, if you want severe mana cost reduction which stops short of mana cost elimination you take the support.

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JohnNamikaze wrote:

Or we can keep the same setup, and keep pestering GGG to lower mortal conviction to like 50% or 60%.

Leads to hijinks with Shavronne's-based builds running all auras simultaneously. 48% is a key breakpoint, best kept at 47% or lower.

You can argue for 45% less if you want. That wouldn't hurt anything.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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tmaciak wrote:

The gain from use of BM gem, is that you don't need to take any mana passives and any mana mods on gear. It it will be removed, you can as well remove this gem.

Bullshit. Cutting mana costs by 60% means that a build with no mana passive shouldn't have any more mana issues than a build with an effective 150% increase to regen. That's a significant passive point savings. If you want to ignore mana completely you take the keystone, if you want severe mana cost reduction which stops short of mana cost elimination you take the support.

Melees don't spam skill in engame from mana regen, but from mana leech. So, if we consider this:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Blood Mana - Red support gem
Mana Cost Multiplier: 200%

And skill, which normally cost 50 mana.

At the moment, on high level BM, it costs around 100 HP.

After your change, it will cost around 80 HP and 20 mana.

So I will need more that 60 mana (if you don't have any mana passives and run 2+60% auras with high level RM gem you are @ lvl 85+ at around this number) to run it, it means, that I need to invest in mana leech and maybe in around 100-150 free mana.

But if I would have mana leech and 150 free mana, I can as well cast this skill from mana. For pure physical build it will be affordable just by getting 2% ML on gear, ele or conversion builds will need probably to switch BM gem to ML gem.

So, when you new gem would be usable? Only in extreme cases, like Dominating Blow or maybe on BM casters (but here, it will be probably better to go EB anyway).