Mortal Conviction change the damn "less"

I moved this to passive feed back. Not sure how to delete threads

"

Z_Fighters wrote:

If any one has any solid justification for this bull**** please fill me in. Maybe I am just ****ing stupid and missed something OBVIOUS about this. so please fill me in.

First off, you're allowed to swear. (Just don't insult other people; you can insult ideas all you want.)

Second, if they make Mortal Conviction too strong — such as using "reduced" — some niche, weird, degenerate builds become possible. Like stacking every single aura in the entire game on life, all with a huge Increase to Auras Cast by You, protected by Shavronne's Wrappings to ensure survivability. Running every single aura super-buffed would make for a very strong support build (think Culling MF on crack) which we really don't want to see in the game.

Rather than give MC a rather small amount of reduction, GGG gave it a large amount of "less" — so that if MC is the only aura node one takes, it has the maximum benefit, but it doesn't combo with the "reduced" nodes in an efficient manner.

So, in other words, MC is the way it is for much the same reason that CWDT got nerfed — not so much because of the common usage (Enduring Cry, Molten Shell), but because of very niche OP shit (using CWDT Discharge to kill Merciless Dominus while AFK). The only difference is that GGG saw the potential OP and never released MC in an abusable form.

Sorry, but to be honest that's how most skills get nerfed, not because of the first situation which comes to mind, but because of the top 1% of OP shit possible which almost no one uses, but breaks the game in half for the few who do find it.

They'll never be able to balance MC so that it'll feel worth it to run an aura on life without it also being abusable and OP (while simultaneously being borderline useless for those not stacking every damn reduced mana conserved node they can).



IMO, they need to just accept that BM will be run as the aura-less build and make it powerful enough to Get by WITHOUT auras (I.E., put a couple gated nodes behind BM that are extra powerful, like 2 +15% life nodes and a +2% life leech node)

So there's a slight extra tradeoff to boost BM as well.

"

aleksandor wrote:

They'll never be able to balance MC so that it'll feel worth it to run an aura on life without it also being abusable and OP (while simultaneously being borderline useless for those not stacking every damn reduced mana conserved node they can).

That's probably true. I view MC mostly as some niche thing which only a very few players will get any use out of, kind of like how I imagine Bloodless might be good for some players who do a lot of PvP but it's just useless to most everyone else.

Not a big fan of your suggested replacements, however; they just feel too... generic.

Not really sure what should be behind Blood Magic. If anything.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

aleksandor wrote:

They'll never be able to balance MC so that it'll feel worth it to run an aura on life without it also being abusable and OP (while simultaneously being borderline useless for those not stacking every damn reduced mana conserved node they can).

That's probably true. I view MC mostly as some niche thing which only a very few players will get any use out of, kind of like how I imagine Bloodless might be good for some players who do a lot of PvP but it's just useless to most everyone else.

Not a big fan of your suggested replacements, however; they just feel too... generic.

Not really sure what should be behind Blood Magic. If anything.

Could add a keystone behind BM maybe that makes mana reserved be converted into HP drained per second (60%=something like 6% per second), with a life leech keystone right behind it to encourage staying in battle.

"

aleksandor wrote:

Could add a keystone behind BM maybe that makes mana reserved be converted into HP drained per second (60%=something like 6% per second), with a life leech keystone right behind it to encourage staying in battle.

That's an even worse idea than some kind of 75% less version of Mortal Conviction; OP Shavronne's-based hijinks would ensue. If the node(s) behind Blood Magic are going to be aura-based, MC is probably about as good as we can get without allowing niche builds to break game balance. The question is: should such nodes be aura-based at all?

One thing to note is that the 'OP shavronne's-based hijinks' are already viable without blood magic, or shavronne's. You can run an aura build with basically all the auras already. Three on life with prism guardian, and 6 or so on mana, plus another one or two on life if you want to use shavronne's.

"

dudiobugtron wrote:

One thing to note is that the 'OP shavronne's-based hijinks' are already viable without blood magic, or shavronne's. You can run an aura build with basically all the auras already. Three on life with prism guardian, and 6 or so on mana, plus another one or two on life if you want to use shavronne's.

Four 60s on mana, one 40 on mana, three 60s on Prism Guardian, then two 40s on life; that's 93% mana and 91% life reserved. Can get Clarity in there too; that's every aura except two of the 40s (or one 40 and one 60). Currently, pretty much the same with Mortal Conviction, more if MC is made better.

edit: Math errors from applying Reduced Mana to the three Prism auras (impossible unless only two Prism auras, which is suboptimal).

Can't balance blood magic when blood magic gem exists. Period.

"

Gravethought wrote:

Can't balance blood magic when blood magic gem exists. Period.

I take that as a personal challenge.

Here's what I would try (in Alpha first!) if I had unlimited dev power:
Blood Mana - Red support gem
Mana Cost Multiplier: 200%
Converts a portion of the cost for supported skills from mana to life.
Level, Conversion
1, 60%
2, 61%
3, 62%
4, 63%
5, 64%
6, 65%
7, 66%
8, 67%
9, 68%
10, 69%
11, 70%
12, 71%
13, 72%
14, 73%
15, 74%
16, 75%
17, 76%
18, 77%
19, 78%
20, 79%

So a skill that costs 100 mana, when supported by a level 20 Blood Mana gem, would cost 42 mana and 158 Life per use; a 60% aura supported by level 20 Blood Mana and Reduced Mana gems would reserve 68% life and 17% mana.

This would make Blood Magic semi-exclusive, while still giving builds with mana issues way to partially resolve their mana problems by paying life instead.