Order of damage conversion
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Well, thank you for all the thorough responses.
I just feel that elemental damage gets a bit bland if that's the standard damage type for every character type out there, ranged, melee, caster, physical(lol).... What is the order of conversion then? Physical is at the very bottom (which is why it's on top here)^^ Then we got Cold & Lightning, I don't know in which order, though. Then Fire, and last Chaos. Correct, so far? Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C ___ Isn't a "no" better than an ignore? |
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I think there is no such order set. It just looked like it because of the logical explanation of the particular examples.
But I will use another, quite simple example to demonstrate my understanding of damage conversions: Infernal blow converts 50% of physical damage to fire. Those unique gloves (forgot the name) convert 25% of physical damage to cold. Now if we use those two together on a 100 physical damage worth hit, it will convert 25% of 100 to cold and 50% of 100 to fire, resulting in 100 damage total, because the converted part is removed from physical damage in the end. The numbers should look like 25 physical damage, 25 cold damage and 50 fire damage. Note it doesn't matter which kind of damage is converted first since it always counts with the basic (not converted) value of physical damage. ✠ ✠
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Such things have been asked before, but I don't recall if there were answers:
What if you have more than 100% conversion? 50% fire 40% cold, 30% lit? Also order has to matter, but I have no idea how they process it to ensure that conversions and bonuses take place at the right time. physical to fire, fire to ice, bonus ice damage, bonus physical damage. This series of events is difficult for me to understand how it's programmed. If conversions go first, then bonus physical doesn't apply to the conversions, but if bonuses go first then ice never gets boosted. So how the system decides when and how to apply each modification... I really don't know, but it's a computer program, so ultimately there is a series of steps. If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]
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From 9.12 patch notes
" The order of mathematical operations in the conversion process of each damage type doesn't matter imo (the damage types are not in order, the operations are, of course). The bonuses only 'check' where the damage comes from. It wouldn't make any sense to apply cold bonuses to physical damage that is not converted to cold. ✠ ✠
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"There is no order. If you have 50% Ice conversion and 50% Fire conversion, then 50% of your damage will be ice and 50% fire. If you have more than 100% conversion, it scales everything but conversions from skill gems down so it totals 100%. So if you have 50% ice, 50% fire, and 50% lightning, then you will deal 33% ice, 33% fire, and 33% lightning. Bonus damage has no order either. If you have +50% increased physical and +50% increased ice, and 25% ice conversion, then the converted quarter of your base damage will be increased by (50+50 = 100%) because it gets both bonuses. The remaining three quarters of your base damage gets the +50% physical. Last edited by Strill on Oct 30, 2012, 6:20:48 AM
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Makes sense. This means that at any given time a damage source simply has tags of what it is... so if a skill has been physical, cold and fire, then it gets all bonuses to each.
This then also prevents circular issues. If you convert physical to fire to cold to fire somehow, the skill is still only going to get physical, cold, and fire bonuses once. So then conversion occurs first, then bonuses, with a cap of 100% scaled for conversion, and type flagging for each conversion. It's possible this is also wrong for conversions longer than 2, but I doubt it since circulars are then not taken care of I think. If you have account problems please [url="http://www.pathofexile.com/support"]Email Support[/url]
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Well, Mark said that loops are impossible, and thus, Converting Elemental Damage to physical is not possible.
I understood that as generally impossible, not 'impossible in case the elemental damage was already converted from physical'. Because that'd be mighty convoluted. Also, while I've seen cold to fire, I've never seen a conversion of fire to cold, or chaos to... anything, actually. Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C ___ Isn't a "no" better than an ignore? |
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Technically in terms of how they're applied, 'order' sin't a thing, but the work as though there was an order in certain cases - basically conversion two any given type must be accounted for when converting from that type, so you could say that happens 'after' if that helps you think about it.
For a specific example, Glacial hammer (physical->cold) and Cold to Fire support (cold->fire) will interact intuitively - the cold->fire conversion effectively happens 'after' the physical->cold conversion, so it knows how much cold it's dealing with. This rule existing (conversion from a type must account for conversion to that type) means we can't allow the possibility of loops, because then none of them can happen 'first' as each depends on the others. Physical can convert to any type, cold can convert to fire, and any type can convert to chaos (not all these are currently implemented in beta). We might later add in another elemental conversion (lightning to either cold or fire, or vis versa) but there's only room for one more, due to the no-loops thing. |
