Order of damage conversion

So, I wanted to ask a question about the order of damage conversion, in the case multiple apply.
Part of it is actually similar to this thread, which sadly never received an answer.

So, if I had a physical bow with a bit of cold damage, a hatred aura active, shot lightning arrow augmented by a cold to fire gem, and used that not yet found diamond unique, Infernal Mantle, which supposedly converts some fire damage to chaos; How would the final damage distribution be calculated?

Would the hatred aura be based of the normal physical damage, or the damage after half of it was converted to lightning?
Would that damage, if converted by 'cold to fire', then be subject to both cold and fire damage passives, or just fire damage (just the converted portion)?
Same question with conversion to chaos, would the chaos damage benefit from fire damage passives?
In this case it's on equipment, not a gem.

And if there was a hypothetical support that converts elemental damage to physical, what will happen? Will the snake bite it's tail and divide by 0?
Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C

___
Isn't a "no" better than an ignore?
Ha ha ha yeah, the snake would simply devour itself.

The conversions are usually executed simultaneously.

So you have a bow with physical damage 50-100, hatred aura will ADD 20% cold damage to that, which would be 10-20 cold damage. Lightning arrow would convert 50% of physical damage to light damage (25-50 ltg). Result of this combo would be:
25-50 physical
10-20 cold
25-50 light

If you augmented such a combo with cold to fire, it would only convert part of the cold damage to fire, I think it is 40% right? The the added damage from hatred would become 6-12 cold, 4-8 fire.
Final product on a single target would be:
25-50 physical
6-12 cold
25-50 light
4-8 fire

Ufff.... I'll try to figure out the rest in edit or new post, this question is not exactly that easy to answer for me as I thought when I started answering it ;) Umm yeah 20% of 100 is not 25. Stupid. Corrected.

Ok no need, Facelicker did that.

Both cold and fire damage would be affected by +cold passives but only the fire part would be affected by +fire passives. Everything would be affected by + physical passives.
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Last edited by wiggin on Oct 28, 2012, 9:36:28 AM
Would the hatred aura be based of the normal physical damage, or the damage after half of it was converted to lightning?
- I'm not entirely positive on this one but in your case, Hatred should convert your Base Physical Damage before/at the same time Lightning Arrow conversion since none of your damage type conversions exceed 100%.

Would that damage, if converted by 'cold to fire', then be subject to both cold and fire damage passives, or just fire damage (just the converted portion)?
- As wiggin pointed out, Cold Damage is boosted by Cold passives. Converted Fire Damage is boosted by both Cold and Fire passives.

Same question with conversion to chaos, would the chaos damage benefit from fire damage passives?
- Yes, the more Fire damage you have, the more will be converted to Chaos.

Let's put some numbers in to help you understand. This is without any damage boosts from passives or gear.

Bow: 20-100 Physical Damage, 10-50 Cold Damage
Hatred: 25% Physical Damage added as Cold Damage
Lightning Arrow: 50% Physical Damage Converted to Lightning, 40% Cold Damage Converted to Fire Damage
Infernal Mantle: 25% Fire Damage Converted to Chaos Damage

We start with just the bow damage:
20-100 Physical, 10-50 Cold = 30-150 Total Damage
Hatred gives 5-25 Cold Damage Bringing our totals to:
20-100 Physical, 15-75 Cold = 35-175 Total Damage
Lightning Arrow converts half Physical to Lightning and 40% Cold to Fire bringing our totals to:
10-50 Physical, 10-50 Lightning, 9-45 Cold, 6-30 Fire = 35-175 Total Damage
Infernal Mantle converts Fire giving us the final result of:
10-50 Physical, 10-50 Lightning, 9-45 Cold, 4.5-22.5 Fire, 1.5-7.5 Chaos = 35-175 Total Damage
Last edited by FaceLicker on Oct 28, 2012, 9:50:52 AM
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/35783/highlight/

This is a good thread to understand how damage conversions work. If you read Mark's posts, you should be able to figure out all conversions on your own. The tricky part is when conversions exceed 100% for a particular damage type. In that case, the active skill(Glacial Hammer, Lightning Arrow, etc.) takes precedence and all other conversions for the same damage type are scaled down.

Excellent link, thank you.
I still wonder what would happen with Elemental -> Physical Conversion, I suppose it would have to be a skill to prevent it from resulting in the aforementioned problems.
Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C

___
Isn't a "no" better than an ignore?
Any way to convert elemental damage back to physical is a huge problem, solely because of facebreaker.

I doubt we'll ever see anything like that.
Let a man walk alone -
Let him commit no sin.
Let him bear few wishes,
Like an elephant in the forest.
Put it an a ranged skill.
Say, Hammerhead Arrow.
Don't quite see the problem.
Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C

___
Isn't a "no" better than an ignore?
"
UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:
Excellent link, thank you.
I still wonder what would happen with Elemental -> Physical Conversion, I suppose it would have to be a skill to prevent it from resulting in the aforementioned problems.
Such a thing is fundamentally impossible. The damage conversion system, as it stands, cannot allow any 'loop' conversion where something is converted back to it's original type.
Thanks for the info.
That is pretty sad, though, as currently everyone and their mom is using elemental damage; practically every ranged build going physical seems to be doing it purely for flavour.

Would it be possible to 'deal all damage as physical' on the actual hi, in sort of the same way that avatar of fire converted 'all' physical to fire damage, instead of a %?
Zaanus:
Global chat: Mechanics for A work one way, B for another, C for a third but also with A, B uses C but not A, and D uses A&B but not C

___
Isn't a "no" better than an ignore?
"
UnDeaD_CyBorG wrote:
Would it be possible to 'deal all damage as physical' on the actual hi, in sort of the same way that avatar of fire converted 'all' physical to fire damage, instead of a %?
That isn't what Avatar of fire did - it worked the same as the other conversions, and also could not form a loop.

There are stats (used on at least one unique item) for changing what type damage is taken as when it's dealt, but these apply as stats on the defender, not the attacker. it is theoretically possible to expand that system later, but would result in some unintuitive consequences.
Last edited by Mark_GGG on Oct 29, 2012, 6:47:28 PM

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