It can't be forgotten that the forums are quite a small sample size, and furthermore the players here are most likely here to complain, as players who enjoy the game spend their time doing just that.
That is exactly why I look on forums quite often. I feel GGG needs to hear positive feedback, or a different opinion. Trading/crafting work just fine I think. I know some people thing I'm crazy that's why I made this thread, so I could see the other side. I still don't understand playing a multiplayer game and not wanting to interact isn't that the point. Not everyone in this game is rude. Most of the time if you ask someone a question you will get an answer. That's been my experience anyways. In any game of this type if you want to progress you will have to trade and interact with people. If someone says "offer" make an offer. If you get no answer ask what they are looking to get. I've never been ignored about anything and I trade daily. Communication is key people :)
I have a life that has demands, so my play time is erratic. I don't have time to make a regular group or the desire to filter through people to weed out turds. I play to relax, and morons stress me out. I have real life friends I can visit when I want social interaction.
I have done 4 trades with strangers and 2 with friends. As I posted on page 5 of this thread, it felt like cheating in an ARPG. I come here from rogue and the Angband variants. There was no trading in those. I liked that game. This game is supposed to be a challenge; that is how I play it. When I want economics, I go play EVE. When I want to trade for survival, I play Darkwinds. Apparently, if I want to craft/gamble I will play a different game than this.
As to Scrotie's question why would you use an orb on a lower level item than save it? Because that is how it feels like the game should be played. You know LOOT PROGRESSION. I am looking for a fun experience, not the most efficient one. Crafting a better mid game item when I can't find one is fun. I know it hurts when people think different than you.
I personally am not that interested in a cut throat league, but I support it. I would even try it out. I would probably not stay long, but I understand why they want it: because it is fun for them.
Last edited by FarmerTed#3081 on Oct 15, 2013, 11:48:33 AM
POE So much of a better game then D3- But playing it mak me miss the AH in D3. Whenever I find something good there, I feel I get a reward, since I smack it up for sale and get SOMETHING for it. I dont want to spend time spamming and bartering, bumping topics etc here on forums to sell items. SO I got like 60 stash tabs filled with good gear my char is not using. Its anoying, since whenever I find something good, I dont get anything for it. It sucks for me. I know many dont feel like me, but for me having an AH makes me able to play the game always, instead of having so spend alot of boring time spamming chats to sell one stupid item.
Are you... are you being serious right now? Go read my post history. Go ahead, I'll wait. See me advocating a full-on AH feature like D3? Simultaneously, what's my feeling of blizzard/D3?
We all calm now? K. Good stuff.
I have not played every single ARPG title out there, nor do I care to. Slowly and calmly read what I have said in this thread, and you'll see that I am pretty cool with how the trading system is in POE, just not cool with how people deal with advertising their prices.
As I understand it, the trading system is meant to be slow and arduous, it is NOT meant to be a cesspool of human depravity. I could care less about the situation in other games, I want THIS game to be the topic at hand. The plan the devs have set in motion seems reasonable to me, and in my opinion will be leaps and bounds better than spamming trade chat all day. Will there still be assholes? Yes. Will I need to actively seek them out? Not as much.
You sound p mad brah.
"
Antnee wrote:
As I understand it
You obviously don't, what you are experiencing here on PoE, what you call "human depravity" is the NORM for any game, or IRL situation were trading is done like this. Your mommy isn't here to hold your hand and make sure you don't overpay for something, and EVERYONE is out to rip you off.
You aren't going to find some fantasy land were everyone is nice, and the guy selling something is going to tell you "Oh you don't need to pay me 10 exalts this is only worth 2"
btw the "plan the devs have set in motion" (public stash tabs) isn't going to change the "cesspool" community you talk of. You are still going to have to deal with the haggling with other players you hate so much.
Since you clearly aren't reading what I am saying, I'll just go ahead and end my contribution to this thread at this post.
Haggling is not my problem here. Dealing with people is not my problem here. Knowing what exactly to pay for something is not my problem here. I'll try to spell this out nice and slow, even though clearly you're just here to pick a fight.
My problem is sellers not taking the initiative to put an initial price point down. And more to the point, sellers being complete dickwads about people not voluntarily putting their necks on the chopping block.
It is a completely ass-backwards approach to expect a customer to know the price point. I know of no real-life scenario where this happens (lets just exclude whatever third-world example you're about to google, here). This is the ideal situation:
Seller: WTS (item) asking (price)
Buyer: WTB (what is being advertised) would you accept (insert haggling, deal happens or it doesn't)
Instead, and this is where my problem lies, this is what you get:
Seller: WTS (item)
Buyer: How much for (item)?
Seller: OFFER OR GTFO (that is, if you're lucky to get a reply at all.)
At this point, there are two options. The buyer can offer a random amount of currency, or the buyer can just walk away. In the first case, the odds of guessing the 'right' amount of currency is extremely low; the seller is clearly out to see how many chickens he can sucker into paying 10x the price. Guess too low, and you're a noob GTFO. Guess too high, and you're a noob thanks for the exalts.
The third option (which is the REAL point of contention here) is that in order to trade successfully, you must first study and master the 'market'. Problem is, I and many other like me do not want to sit and watch trade chat all day to figure out what to pay for ONE upgrade. Only people who enjoy sitting in trade chat all day benefit from this, as they are the ones ripping everyone else off.
The FOURTH option here, is to just be a decent human being and put an asking price on stuff. Hell, even a ridiculously high one! You will still come out ahead as a seller, but the problem of piss-poor process is eliminated, and more people go into the trading system happy and leave happy. Sellers still make a ton of profit, but casual BUYERS (note, not casual PLAYERS) walk away from trade not feeling like the community is a cesspool.
Or just continue to act like a child and watch as the QQ threads pile up for an AH until GGG finally caves.
A comprehensive, easy on the eyes loot filter:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1245785
Need a chill group exiles to hang with? Join us:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1251403
I feel that I'd rather want to play the game, you know, killing monsters, and not constantly sit in the chat spamming or reading the spam. Also, I don't feel I play enough to keep up with the knowledge of how much items are worth, so every time I want to buy something I feel that the seller is wanting more than what the item is worth, and the other way around when I want to sell something.
One of the few games that I have ever traded in was WoW and it was as easy as putting an item into the AH and I immediately knew what people were selling/buying it for and then click the auction button and it was a done deal. Not saying I want AH in PoE though.
Edited in: Kind of agree with the above post actually, I usually just use whatever I find or trade with one of my few friends playing the game.
Edited again lol: Raechel's post is right on the money! gj!
Last edited by CrazylikE#7023 on Oct 15, 2013, 3:04:33 PM
Edited again lol: Raechel's post is right on the money! gj!
"
Wooser69 wrote:
Agree all around and silkroad made me laugh. Good Jorb.
Thanks both :-) I put a reasonable amount of thought into that and despite being long I hope people read it and found some insight.
Spoiler has a shameless repost in case any of you lovely people missed it first time around.
Spoiler
"
Raechel wrote:
FWIW my answer to this question:
-- PoE had the great innovation and insight of replacing gold with items that have utility but then makes the items so rare and the utility so marginal that it might as well be gold. Albeit a particularly inconvenient and horribly illiquid form of gold that comes in different currencies that can only be exchanged at thesilkroad.com
-- The cost of trading is a significant amount of activity that many people find at best tedious or worse completely at odds with an activity they do for relaxation and fun. This not only reduces efficiency of the market (things are expensive, bid/offer spreads are variable, unpredictable and wide) but the amount of trading is significantly reduced (there are people with stuff to sell that people want to buy but those transactions do not happen). Also, well, it's just a dumb mechanic if you say it out loud ("We made a significant part of our game a pain in the ass so people don't do it as much").
-- Not participating in trading means crafting is more or less broken by virtue of being impossible to complete on a timescale compatible with human lifetimes. Therefore one of the games' most significant and enjoyable systems requires players to pay the "cost" of trading or forego that part of the game.
-- RNG is great and adds to the enjoyment of many games. But the brutal variance in PoE's various systems and tuning is only fun if you enjoy setting fire to your hair in the hope that a passing billionaire will say "That's cool! Here have a 10 million $ for making my day". It would be like playing a form of Poker where the only winning hand is a Royal Flush and everything else is a tie/push.
-- The original problem this was meant to fix was to slow the game down so people didn't burn through it super quick even with 14x7 play times and get bored and stop playing. If the solution to that is to make the game so frustrating that people stop playing anyway then you have not really solved the problem.
-- The game has a built in mechanisms (leagues with alternate rulesets, ladders and resets) for providing and/or experimenting with this sort of thing so the decision to not do this other than because GGG think we should be trading (if we are to take their comments at face value) seems almost wilfully perverse.
-- I spend about 50 hours a week trading and or thinking about trading (algorithmic trading of derivatives) and a chunk of my spare time playing poker. So I like trading and I like gambling. The problem is that at the forms of trading and gambling PoE provides are just not particularly rewarding or enjoyable.
-- Exalted orbs are a barbarous relic (sort of) (for wonks out there).
Having said all that, I really enjoy PoE and am happy to play it without trading, with minimal crafting and with access to mostly marginal loot. I also really like that it's hard, requires time, determination and effort and has interesting and complex systems that reward thought and planning.
I just think it would be a lot better if there was a version of the game that allowed me to craft without having to undergo the tedium of trading.
As to Scrotie's question why would you use an orb on a lower level item than save it? Because that is how it feels like the game should be played. You know LOOT PROGRESSION. I am looking for a fun experience, not the most efficient one. Crafting a better mid game item when I can't find one is fun. I know it hurts when people think different than you.
You know, it seems, that some people just think, that RPG game should be like crossing of Mathlab, Monopoly and Facebook. Unfortunately, devs seems to share this view.
Anticipation slowly dissipates...
Last edited by tmaciak#3784 on Oct 15, 2013, 4:23:39 PM
Fear of getting scammed due to the nature of the trading system. I have no clue what stuff is worth so I hoard it and trade item for item instead of using orbs.
Without reading all 20 pages my answer is..
Personally I find trading in Arpg´s as I´m cheating..
I dont want to buy that Epic xxx I desperatly want..I want the thrill/rush of have the item drop..Thats why I play the game , for that "magic" moment when I see the drop/identify it.
I rather Grind Gear than currency.
"
Also why do you want a self found league?
A SFL (it could be implemented within existing leagues by having an option at character creation,check box sfl = disabling trade/party and a seperate ladder ofc.
Well..why not? In my opinion that would be a "fair" ladder..no multiboxing,no suspicion of rmt.
no playing safe in party only ..
The question isn´t why..but Why not?
Cheers ,
L
**Better to burnout , than to fade away**
Closed Beta Member since September 2011
Last edited by Lazze#6253 on Oct 15, 2013, 5:04:01 PM
Since you clearly aren't reading what I am saying, I'll just go ahead and end my contribution to this thread at this post.
Haggling is not my problem here. Dealing with people is not my problem here. Knowing what exactly to pay for something is not my problem here. I'll try to spell this out nice and slow, even though clearly you're just here to pick a fight.
My problem is sellers not taking the initiative to put an initial price point down. And more to the point, sellers being complete dickwads about people not voluntarily putting their necks on the chopping block.
It is a completely ass-backwards approach to expect a customer to know the price point. I know of no real-life scenario where this happens (lets just exclude whatever third-world example you're about to google, here). This is the ideal situation:
Seller: WTS (item) asking (price)
Buyer: WTB (what is being advertised) would you accept (insert haggling, deal happens or it doesn't)
Instead, and this is where my problem lies, this is what you get:
Seller: WTS (item)
Buyer: How much for (item)?
Seller: OFFER OR GTFO (that is, if you're lucky to get a reply at all.)
At this point, there are two options. The buyer can offer a random amount of currency, or the buyer can just walk away. In the first case, the odds of guessing the 'right' amount of currency is extremely low; the seller is clearly out to see how many chickens he can sucker into paying 10x the price. Guess too low, and you're a noob GTFO. Guess too high, and you're a noob thanks for the exalts.
The third option (which is the REAL point of contention here) is that in order to trade successfully, you must first study and master the 'market'. Problem is, I and many other like me do not want to sit and watch trade chat all day to figure out what to pay for ONE upgrade. Only people who enjoy sitting in trade chat all day benefit from this, as they are the ones ripping everyone else off.
The FOURTH option here, is to just be a decent human being and put an asking price on stuff. Hell, even a ridiculously high one! You will still come out ahead as a seller, but the problem of piss-poor process is eliminated, and more people go into the trading system happy and leave happy. Sellers still make a ton of profit, but casual BUYERS (note, not casual PLAYERS) walk away from trade not feeling like the community is a cesspool.
Or just continue to act like a child and watch as the QQ threads pile up for an AH until GGG finally caves.
You start off by saying haggling isn't your problem, then you write 5 paragraphs about how you don't like players making you haggle.
Are you stupid? I also really like that last sentence, 10/10...
Last edited by Zepidel#2317 on Oct 15, 2013, 4:55:50 PM
