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Does it mean that base item is decided before the rarity ? If I remember well, GGG staff said the contrary before...
No, the rarity is decided first using the method Mark described.
So what happens if a particular base item type has no unique? Not sure that's possible right now, but would that mean an automatic downgrade to rare or something?
I don't think it chooses a base type after rolling a unique. If a drop rolls unique, it chooses a unique out of a table of possible uniques that can drop for that monster level. Some uniques are much rarer then others to drop obviously, but base type doesn't matter.
For example, when a unique drops, it could pick from a randomly generated table of 1,000,000 uniques, Infernal Mantle might have 1,000 entries in the table, while Shavronne's Wrappings might only have 5. The fact that they are both Occultist Vestament's is irrelevant.
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lvl 95 Physical Crit Bow Gear: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1073300 Last edited by UncleNana on Oct 1, 2013, 1:26:51 PM
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Posted byUncleNanaon Oct 1, 2013, 1:22:57 PM
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[...] IIR increases the first chance - the chance an item will drop as (at least) magic. [...]
Doesn't IIR have to also increase the second and third chances to upgrade an item?
If it only increased the first chance, then Maelstroms shouldn't drop almost all rares like they do. The upper limit for the amount of rare items dropped by a given mob would be based purely on the amount of magic items dropped. Thus, once you force a monster to drop almost all magic items (pretty close at 430 iir), you should be hitting the upper limit of maximum possible amount of rares to drop. Yet when in a maelstrom it's possible to get almost all rares.
I hope this makes sense.
Last edited by DestroTheGod on Oct 1, 2013, 2:54:24 PM
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Posted byDestroTheGodon Oct 1, 2013, 2:53:52 PM
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The wording of Increased Item Rarity leads me to believe that each equipable item has an associated numerical "rarity." Each time an item drops, a random rarity is determined and then multiplied by your IIR. If this rarity is above a certain threshold (but below the next), it will be a magic item, or if it is above a higher threshold it will be a rare. I suspect Unique items may have different drop mechanics, so they will be disregarded.
No, rarity is not a numerical value. There are four rarities in the game: Normal, Magic, Rare, and unique. "rarity" is not some hidden number that causes these and unspecified thresholds, it's simply the property of being one of these rarities. Unique is not an exception, it's a rarity like any other.
Any arbitrary drop has a certain chance to be upgraded to magic, any drop that does has anohter chance to upgrade to rare, and any rare drop then has another chance to upgrade to unique. IIR increases the first chance - the chance an item will drop as (at least) magic. By doing so, this has a knock-on effect on the other rarities - if twice as many items drop as at least magic, and N% of magics upgrade again to rare, then, twice as many items will drop as rare, since the same n% is applied to a greater number, and the same again for uniqe.
This would indicate that once you get enough rarity so you never get a white item you would be better off going for Quantity.
Fight censorship
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Posted byMr_Billon Oct 1, 2013, 4:45:12 PM
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No, rarity is not a numerical value. There are four rarities in the game: Normal, Magic, Rare, and unique. "rarity" is not some hidden number that causes these and unspecified thresholds, it's simply the property of being one of these rarities. Unique is not an exception, it's a rarity like any other.
Any arbitrary drop has a certain chance to be upgraded to magic, any drop that does has anohter chance to upgrade to rare, and any rare drop then has another chance to upgrade to unique. IIR increases the first chance - the chance an item will drop as (at least) magic. By doing so, this has a knock-on effect on the other rarities - if twice as many items drop as at least magic, and N% of magics upgrade again to rare, then, twice as many items will drop as rare, since the same n% is applied to a greater number, and the same again for uniqe.
great information
thank you
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Posted byfsgon Oct 1, 2013, 4:51:34 PM
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This would indicate that once you get enough rarity so you never get a white item you would be better off going for Quantity.
at a certain point it is still always better to go with quantity, its all just simple math
you dont have to "hard cap" your IIR for IIQ to be more benefitial
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Posted byfsgon Oct 1, 2013, 4:53:52 PM
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Any arbitrary drop has a certain chance to be upgraded to magic, any drop that does has anohter chance to upgrade to rare, and any rare drop then has another chance to upgrade to unique. IIR increases the first chance - the chance an item will drop as (at least) magic. By doing so, this has a knock-on effect on the other rarities - if twice as many items drop as at least magic, and N% of magics upgrade again to rare, then, twice as many items will drop as rare, since the same n% is applied to a greater number, and the same again for uniqe.
So this should look like that: X = chance to get a white drop; Y = arbitrary % to get that upgraded to next rarity ; Z = % IIR ; W = arbitrary % to get certain unique/uniqe ---> to get a magic: X*(Y+Z) ; from white to get a rare: (X*(Y+Z))*(Y+Z) ; from white to get an unique or uniqe: ((X*(Y+Z))*(Y+Z))*(Y+Z) ; and finally to determinate what kind of unique/ uniqe we can get: (((X*(Y+Z))*(Y+Z))*(Y+Z))*W
No wonder why i still get crappy lv 1 uniques/uniqes in the BEST and EXCLUSIVE END GAME CONTENT EVER SEEN
PD :
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This would indicate that once you get enough rarity so you never get a white item you would be better off going for Quantity.
" You... managed to catch the fish i wanted? Congratulations! Let´s keep this a secret between the two of us, shall we? In the meantime, take this. It should be useful in the future." - Krillson, the 8th Master.
Grinding Gear & Gems Last edited by typ3r on Oct 1, 2013, 5:17:49 PM
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Posted bytyp3ron Oct 1, 2013, 5:15:27 PM
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No wonder why i still get crappy lv 1 uniques/uniqes in the BEST and EXCLUSIVE END GAME CONTENT EVER SEEN
i love how the 6L searing touch shits all over this idea of how unique drops should work
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Posted byfsgon Oct 1, 2013, 5:18:42 PM
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This would indicate that once you get enough rarity so you never get a white item you would be better off going for Quantity.
Exactly. This is the point I make in my post as well. The post by mark seems wrong.
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Posted byDestroTheGodon Oct 1, 2013, 7:21:51 PM
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Haven't seen a serious MF thread in a while, and the info Mark gave is new to me. But as always we are left with more questions than answers. While I do appreciate the info, I do also wish GGG could put an end to this and release some official stat on MF or just say that's all we are saying and that's that.
"Truth be told, I have no idea what the fuck is going on anymore." Stephen Hawkins
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Posted byjustinloaseon Oct 1, 2013, 8:26:53 PM
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Any arbitrary drop has a certain chance to be upgraded to magic, any drop that does has anohter chance to upgrade to rare, and any rare drop then has another chance to upgrade to unique. IIR increases the first chance - the chance an item will drop as (at least) magic. By doing so, this has a knock-on effect on the other rarities - if twice as many items drop as at least magic, and N% of magics upgrade again to rare, then, twice as many items will drop as rare, since the same n% is applied to a greater number, and the same again for uniqe.
Actually, it hasn't worked like that for some time. It currently rolls for Unique first, then if that fails, it rolls for Rare, then Magic, etc. +IIR is applied to every roll (with diminishing returns).
Code warrior
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Posted byRhyson Oct 1, 2013, 9:13:43 PMGrinding Gear Games
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