Another Rant about Reflect Damage

"

Xendran wrote:

I didnt have a problem with these mods until recently where i nearly oneshotted myself with my lightning arrow.

I can agree that when i can nearly ohko myself with 7k hp and 77% lightning res, there's an issue.

7K hp 77% res and lighting arrow?

I call BS.

Lets say you have 400 str, using kaom's heart, and have 200% life from passive, you still need 1.1k life from you items, the highest possible life roll is 30+99 on ring, and 99 on everything else. Gl getting any bow passives.

So everything you have is rolling +99 max life, including your bow, and you will still short of 7k.

Damage wise, To be able to one hit yourself 7k hp with 77% lit res, you do need to do at least 20k+.

Your item now all must have crazy + dmg, + % dmg, and res(you have 77)(lets not forget the +99 life too).



Please post some screen shot and prove me wrong, how you fucking have 7k life, 77% res and insane damage at the same time.

It is funny how players that can only powergrind one click their stuff are complaining here how their high end char is getting screwed over. It is not even so much the content of their posts, but the tone they convey here.

Really, it is a paradox. On the one hand you people argue in a way that you are the ultimate pros at this game, whipping up builds with insanely high damage and all. On the other hand you are too stupid to come up with a solution against reflect enemies?

That shows where you are coming from ;)

I could agree that the reflect mods are currently a bit over the top especially when they are inherent to a map's mods. That however can be explained without insulting the rest of the player base.

I have a character too that could potentially one shot himself. Yet I never do. Know why? Because I think before I act and because I have some gameplay skill (not much, but it is enough for this simple scenario). Have a secondary spell of the opposite nature of your main spell. Come up with a nice totem that can take out such mobs for you. Go for some summons. Reroll the map.

But I know that would have to get you out of your easy mode routine. One little challenge and they all come qq'ing like there is no tomorrow.

These mods are there to make you think.

P.S.: This doesn't go out to all of the people posting here (as I said there is a real issue), but to the OP and one or two more guys sitting on their high horses for no reason other than them investing more time into the game than the rest.

"

EpsiIon wrote:

I can draw many things from your post, and one of many of them that are likely is that you rarely spend time gearing any of your toons exceptionally.

This isn't about map mods btw, at least read posts before slobbering on the keyboard and making a fool of yourself.

I have had several times, had to leave and reset a map becuase theres a necro mancer standing in a hoard of undead and he JUST SO HAPPENS to have reflect.

When I have some of the best gear attainable in the game, and am 15-20 levels above a map, yes, I expect to do everything save place my face on the keyboard and roll through the map.


It isnt about simply steam rolling, some ele reflect mobs are down right nearly impossible for me to kill. Absolutely. Impossible. Some take me 20 minutes to slowly fray a mob enough to pull one or two mobs off to the point that I can go after the ele reflect with a lvl 35 staff becuase just doing that nearly 5 shots me. And Im an archer. You have absolutely no point, and are utterly lacking any coherent thought under then a littlee unbridled rage at the fact that people HAVE good gear.

Hey, next time instead of insulting me for half the post, maybe you should get to the point. Slobbering over a keyboard, utterly lacking coherency, unbridled rage? I have no point? Don't turn this into some insult game with me? You want an ad hominem? Tell me how many hours have you sunk in this game to have exceptional gear for your "toons," because depending on your answer I can say something like, "You are a lonely los-" I'm done.


I have found the problem. You think you deserve play through most of the end-game content with ease. You say you have to kite mobs away to pick apart the group. This is you playing the game. It is working as intended. If you don't understand my point then you are being ignorant.


Unfortunately, most of your post is just riddled with ad hominems, so let me just leave you with this in response to my favorite attack. I am not jealous of your good gear. In fact I cringed at how defensive you are.

"

Xikorut wrote:

Except... They removed Iron Maiden from the Chaos Sanctuary because that shit was fucking stupid.

And where did it go after this? It went to the worldstone keep.

"

haitu wrote:

"

EpsiIon wrote:

I can draw many things from your post, and one of many of them that are likely is that you rarely spend time gearing any of your toons exceptionally.

This isn't about map mods btw, at least read posts before slobbering on the keyboard and making a fool of yourself.

I have had several times, had to leave and reset a map becuase theres a necro mancer standing in a hoard of undead and he JUST SO HAPPENS to have reflect.

When I have some of the best gear attainable in the game, and am 15-20 levels above a map, yes, I expect to do everything save place my face on the keyboard and roll through the map.


It isnt about simply steam rolling, some ele reflect mobs are down right nearly impossible for me to kill. Absolutely. Impossible. Some take me 20 minutes to slowly fray a mob enough to pull one or two mobs off to the point that I can go after the ele reflect with a lvl 35 staff becuase just doing that nearly 5 shots me. And Im an archer. You have absolutely no point, and are utterly lacking any coherent thought under then a littlee unbridled rage at the fact that people HAVE good gear.

Hey, next time instead of insulting me for half the post, maybe you should get to the point. Slobbering over a keyboard, utterly lacking coherency, unbridled rage? I have no point? Don't turn this into some insult game with me? You want an ad hominem? Tell me how many hours have you sunk in this game to have exceptional gear for your "toons," because depending on your answer I can say something like, "You are a lonely los-" I'm done.


I have found the problem. You think you deserve play through most of the end-game content with ease. You say you have to kite mobs away to pick apart the group. This is you playing the game. It is working as intended. If you don't understand my point then you are being ignorant.


Unfortunately, most of your post is just riddled with ad hominems, so let me just leave you with this in response to my favorite attack. I am not jealous of your good gear. In fact I cringed at how defensive you are.

"

Xikorut wrote:

Except... They removed Iron Maiden from the Chaos Sanctuary because that shit was fucking stupid.

And where did it go after this? It went to the worldstone keep.

The fact is you made absolutely no point. At all. You just said get over yourself. Please. Make an argument or point to any, if possible, in your in-coherency, and I will tear it to utter shreds in a matter of slamming my face on my keyboard. Extremely mad people like you aside; I would like to comment on more appropriate and intelligent posts.

"

Burgingham wrote:

It is funny how players that can only powergrind one click their stuff are complaining here how their high end char is getting screwed over. It is not even so much the content of their posts, but the tone they convey here.

Really, it is a paradox. On the one hand you people argue in a way that you are the ultimate pros at this game, whipping up builds with insanely high damage and all. On the other hand you are too stupid to come up with a solution against reflect enemies?

That shows where you are coming from ;)

I could agree that the reflect mods are currently a bit over the top especially when they are inherent to a map's mods. That however can be explained without insulting the rest of the player base.

I have a character too that could potentially one shot himself. Yet I never do. Know why? Because I think before I act and because I have some gameplay skill (not much, but it is enough for this simple scenario). Have a secondary spell of the opposite nature of your main spell. Come up with a nice totem that can take out such mobs for you. Go for some summons. Reroll the map.

But I know that would have to get you out of your easy mode routine. One little challenge and they all come qq'ing like there is no tomorrow.

These mods are there to make you think.

P.S.: This doesn't go out to all of the people posting here (as I said there is a real issue), but to the OP and one or two more guys sitting on their high horses for no reason other than them investing more time into the game than the rest.

I'm not stating and simply haven't that ele reflect is unreasonable. I simply stated that it scales oppositely compared to point of the game. Some characters simply scale better with damage then HP. The only characters that rarely 1 shot themselves on ele r and are heavy elemental damage are ES characters, which of course can reach 6k shield and max resists trivially. The issue is armor/life hybrid archers that go evasion or life/armor, and even with maxed resists, there's not enough buffer there to survive. I have a weapon in my off hand that I use to default attack mobs, it is a lvl 35 staff. In 5 hits if I don't flask, I kill myself. Simply from items. And I have 2k hp and 78% resist all. As well as the fact that reflect mobs make a SPECIFIC build type, that already suffers the plague of diamond flasks, more of a misery then is needed. Players without crit based builds can easily use the life leech gem, but any archer or elemental wand user, both are relatively high on the crit build list, get 1 shot, while marauders, who are not based on crit, but may have the same or higher dps, lol at the reflect and bash his brains in. Simply because the crits dps happens in one hit, and several minuscule ones, rather then the several average hits by the mara.

This mod is the only danger for high level characters, and should not be removed. Removing or nerfing these monster mods will make the game a lot less challenging and suspenseful.

As said earlier in this thread there are ways to mitigate this damage, and players can adapt to overcome the challenge.

I have lost several hardcore characters above 65 to this mod in the past, and it is not fun when it happens. Still there are no one else to blame than myself.

Proper flask use, and of course stacking resists for your own element, is the key to easily deal with these mobs.

the problem of reflect is not the dmg is the mechanic of it

if you fire 5k dmg arrow on a mob that is not on the screen a proper reflect mechanic should fire similar arrow towards you - so you can kite

now you just take the dmg from something you dont even know its there - which is dumb

for melee the reflect should work only if they are in melee distance,so if i use ground slam there should be no reflect dmg on me - this way you can at least do something against reflect mobs and thats kiting and utilizing other skills,you will apply different strategy to beat the mobs which is what ggg should be looking for

current system of taking dmg no matter what is not well thought out

"

haitu wrote:

And where did it go after this? It went to the worldstone keep.

It went nowhere, it was completely removed.

If this mod should stay in game, it should be made more apparent. The aura is completely invisible in water. Furthermore, with the .12p patch it's actually harder to read the mods on a rare monster due to grey text which was white previously.
Also, arrows or sparks can travel great distances so there's no real way to prepare for a reflect mob that might be more than a screen away from you. Even if you use flasks for -every- encounter just to prevent killing yourself thanks to a mob that may or may not be a screen away, they won't stay full forever.

"

Dashtun wrote:

the problem of reflect is not the dmg is the mechanic of it

if you fire 5k dmg arrow on a mob that is not on the screen a proper reflect mechanic should fire similar arrow towards you - so you can kite

now you just take the dmg from something you dont even know its there - which is dumb

for melee the reflect should work only if they are in melee distance,so if i use ground slam there should be no reflect dmg on me - this way you can at least do something against reflect mobs and thats kiting and utilizing other skills,you will apply different strategy to beat the mobs which is what ggg should be looking for

current system of taking dmg no matter what is not well thought out

exactly

and for elemental bow users its the lightning arrow thats giving the main issue. ur not only getting hit by ur 5k dmg on the main target, but everything around it AND the extra 2-5 mob jump it does, and you cant always see what ur hitting

My experience on topic:

I have a GS marauder with 3k HP, ~10K armor, 80% all resists, never miss, never get crits, never dodge, ~5K DPS with GS.

My current build relies on my 20% life leech in addition to Vaal Pact, which allows me to regenerate insane amounts of life. I can usually just go face to face with any map boss and wham on them without fear (not even bothering to get my 5 endurance charges).

As a result of blood magic + vaal pact + resolute technique, the only flasks that have any effect for me are granite flasks - so I use them (20K armor is pretty good).

The only mobs I ever run away from are those with phys damage reflect, because they own me without me having even the slightest chance - they usually reflect more damage than I can leech.

This is NOT necessarily a bad thing - every build should have an Achille's heel, but, it seems that reflect mobs are the Achille's heel of most builds... on top of some other Achille's heel.