Vulnerability + half regen + ES?

How does it work? 'Players recover Life, Mana and Energy Shield 50% slower' and '69% reduced energy shield regeneration' together on the same map? If i have shav ring for 4% ES regess / sec'

Are these multiplicative or do they stack with a cap?

Also, is the converted life regen from ZO effected here by temporal chains??

Also, '54% increased energy shield recharge delay' --> how does this work if i have 50% increased recovery from tree, and the base recharged iirc is 6 seconds??
No one knows? ^^
As far as I know (like everything else in PoE) all of the debuffs will stack on one another.

The 50% regen map mod essentially halves your regen, whether it be on life or ES (from ZO or otherwise)

Vulnerability both lowers your ES regen (from any source whether it be ZO/shavs or the natural regen) and how fast before the natural regen will kick in.


You would have to get a math-wiz in here to give you the numbers on it. I'm absolutely awful at math so I'm not even going to attempt it.



Temp Chains only effects buffs/debuffs, why would it effect something that doesn't give you a buff?

Hope that helps.
IGN: Ghured
Last edited by Vandalain on Sep 19, 2013, 3:28:30 AM
one simple solution: get on this map and try it out.
"
Vandalain wrote:
As far as I know (like everything else in PoE) all of the debuffs will stack on one another.

The 50% regen map mod essentially halves your regen, whether it be on life or ES (from ZO or otherwise)

Vulnerability both lowers your ES regen (from any source whether it be ZO/shavs or the natural regen) and how fast before the natural regen will kick in.


You would have to get a math-wiz in here to give you the numbers on it. I'm absolutely awful at math so I'm not even going to attempt it.



Temp Chains only effects buffs/debuffs, why would it effect something that doesn't give you a buff?

Hope that helps.


i meant vuln not temp chains sorry

you are repeating what i already know :P but tnx for reply anyway

I just want dev confirmation if its multiplicative, or additive with a cap

"
one simple solution: get on this map and try it out.


yeah i would if my pc worked :( only using work pc atm
no one knows? :(

where can i repost this to get a dev answer?
Yes they stack. There is no cap. Yes converted life regen from ZO is affected by vulnerability. Benefits from Shav's ring are not affected by any of them. It is solid 4% added after everything else.

If base ES regen time is 6 seconds, you have 50% cooldown, your regen is 3seconds, with 54% decreased ~ 4.5 seconds.
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"
reboticon wrote:
[...]
If base ES regen time is 6 seconds, you have 50% cooldown, your regen is 3seconds, with 54% decreased ~ 4.5 seconds.

Not entirely correct, from the Mechanics Thread:
"
Energy Shield will recharge if you do not take any damage for a certain period of time. The default delay is 6 seconds. This time can be reduced with increased energy shield cooldown recovery modifiers from passive skills. The formula for the recharge delay is:
6 * (100 / (100 + increased recovery) )
so 100% increased recovery is halving the delay, not removing it entirely.

--> With 50% increased cooldown recovery, ES starts to recharge after taking no damage for 6/1.5 = 4 seconds.

"
mvm199 wrote:
How does it work? 'Players recover Life, Mana and Energy Shield 50% slower' and '69% reduced energy shield regeneration' together on the same map? If i have shav ring for 4% ES regess / sec'

Are these multiplicative or do they stack with a cap?

Also, is the converted life regen from ZO effected here by temporal chains??

Also, '54% increased energy shield recharge delay' --> how does this work if i have 50% increased recovery from tree, and the base recharged iirc is 6 seconds??

Neither Shavronne's Revelation nor ZO should be affected by Vulnerability. The two relevant effects of Vulnerability for ES are
(1) Cursed enemies have x% increased Energy Shield recharge delay,
(2) Cursed enemies have x% reduced Energy Shield recharge rate.
The keyword here is ES recharge, we are talking about the base recharge of ES after taking no damage for some time. I guess you took the "reduced Energy Shield regeneration rate" from the Wiki, but if you read on the gem it actually states "recharge rate".

Then we have the map mod, which states
(*) players recover life, mana and energy shield 50% slower
Afaik your ring isn't affected again, if that is true the wording here imo isn't precise enough since the ring was added to the game. The phrase "life recovery" covers flasks, regen and leech, but "ES recovery" doesn't cover ES regen (which currently only is available on that ring). Well, it does for the ZO part, but that's probably because it is converted life regen. I have no Shavronne's ring to test it, so please bear with me if I'm wrong here.

To your last question, "54% increased energy shield recharge delay" could be just another wording for "54% reduced energy shield recharge recovery", that way it would be additive with your 50% increase, resulting in 4% reduced recharge recovery --> 6/0.96 = 6.25s recharge delay. If it actually is a different stat (which the different wording kinda implies), it would be multiplicative, resulting in 4*1.54 = 6.16s recharge delay. Hard to measure, but no big difference anyways. PvP arena with a friend looks like the best place to make sure which one it actually is.
Last edited by Lord_of_Error on Sep 19, 2013, 9:33:24 PM
Ah, ok. My bad on the ES regen rate. Shav ring is not affected at all. You can run NO REGEN maps using it with Zealot's oath and outregen RF.
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"
Lord_of_Error wrote:
Neither Shavronne's Revelation nor ZO should be affected by Vulnerability. The two relevant effects of Vulnerability for ES are
(1) Cursed enemies have x% increased Energy Shield recharge delay,
(2) Cursed enemies have x% reduced Energy Shield recharge rate.
The keyword here is ES recharge, we are talking about the base recharge of ES after taking no damage for some time.
Correct

"
Lord_of_Error wrote:
Then we have the map mod, which states
(*) players recover life, mana and energy shield 50% slower
Afaik your ring isn't affected again, if that is true the wording here imo isn't precise enough since the ring was added to the game. The phrase "life recovery" covers flasks, regen and leech, but "ES recovery" doesn't cover ES regen
How are you coming to the conclusion that ES recovery doesn't include regneration? Regeneration is a form of recovery, for everything, including ES. Anything that is giving you ES is ES recovery. That includes leech, regeneration, recharge, gain on hit, or anything else that is causing the amount of your current ES to rise.
"
Lord_of_Error wrote:
To your last question, "54% increased energy shield recharge delay" could be just another wording for "54% reduced energy shield recharge recovery", that way it would be additive with your 50% increase, resulting in 4% reduced recharge recovery --> 6/0.96 = 6.25s recharge delay. If it actually is a different stat (which the different wording kinda implies), it would be multiplicative, resulting in 4*1.54 = 6.16s recharge delay.
There is no such thing as "recharge recovery" so I'm not sure where you got that from. Based on what mvm199 said, he appears to be talking about having a 54% modifier to the delay, and a 50% modifier to the recovery. Those stats don't, and can't stack in any way, because they're fundamentally affecting different things. One is affecting the delay, and one is affecting the recharge that happens after the delay.
Think of it as one thing affecting how long you have to count down for before launching a rocket, and the other affecting how fast the rocket flies when it's launched.

It does appear that Vulnerability is using a different stat description that is out of date and not technically correct, so I will make a note to have that updated to match the same stat in the tree.
Last edited by Mark_GGG on Sep 20, 2013, 12:53:45 AM

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