Diablo 3 is happy to admit it has problems and copy POE & other ARPGs to improve.

"

Firecrest5 wrote:

"

IVIetal wrote:

In PoE you have actual character customization,

Debateable. But I can see how an inexperienced gamer might think this.

Even one node if i take otherwise,its still better customisation than the D3 hands to me.Its even amazing to say debetable,since D3 has no customisation whatsoever

"

unique uniques,

Again, iffy. In this case "unique uniques" mostly means "crap no one would ever wear".

Unique uniques,are either gooods mediocre or bads,but its uniques.Dont want to admit facts?

"

and insanely good crafting

This one floored me. The crafting system is PoE's second biggest flaw (behind the shitty end game). If you count this as a positive, then no wonder you're enjoying that Kool-Aid so much.

We have afanboy here gentleman.Poe's crafting system can be better and be sure that will be better.Are you still comparing D3 to poe?Cause that is what this thread does,and D3 crafting is way worse at all aspects

"

and fucking insanely well though economy.

See above. This is PoE’s third biggest flaw.
See above.Orbs as general idea are better than P2W Gold from AH.Are you still comparing or?

"

Also pretty graphics and mad particle effect. 8) i just prefer dark fantasy over rainbow whirlwind gay techno barb.

Matter of opinion. I disagree, but this is so subjective to tastes that it’s not even worth discussing.

Matter of taste indeed.Liking diablos physics is one thing,but loving POE's dark fantassy theme is another thing.I guess comparing to what D2 was,Poe is very close to what D3 is now.

Actually the crafting and the economy in this game are flipping fantastic.
There are issues with both, but they blow the Diablo versions out of the water.
The way the orbs act as currency and as crafting materials provides an amazing currency sink, and crafting only really fails when you attempt to craft end-game items. This is by design since once you get end-game items you don't need to craft anymore.

I don't think anyone has ever articulated what exactly is wrong with the economy. There's nothing wrong with it. It's one of the most stable gaming economies that has ever been created. What exactly is wrong with the economy?

"

majesw wrote:

Actually the crafting and the economy in this game are flipping fantastic.
There are issues with both, but they blow the Diablo versions out of the water.
The way the orbs act as currency and as crafting materials provides an amazing currency sink, and crafting only really fails when you attempt to craft end-game items. This is by design since once you get end-game items you don't need to craft anymore.

I don't think anyone has ever articulated what exactly is wrong with the economy. There's nothing wrong with it. It's one of the most stable gaming economies that has ever been created. What exactly is wrong with the economy?

There is nothing wrong with the economy. It is just people with half-assed jewish genes who dont have the possibility to become 'rich' in this game. The game's intensive is having fun and not becoming "wealthy". "Wealthy" what does that even mean in Wraeclast ...

I think the uproar stems from people bringing their MMO-mindset into this game. You see there is a certain breed of people who love to have a second job in a fictional place amassing tons of gold or platinum. Then they can show those off to their fellow players ...

This game is about teamwork, putting resources together and having fun in the process.

"

Reinhart wrote:

There is nothing wrong with the economy. It is just people with half-assed jewish genes who dont have the possibility to become 'rich' in this game. The game's intensive is having fun and not becoming "wealthy". "Wealthy" what does that even mean in Wraeclast ...

I think the uproar stems from people bringing their MMO-mindset into this game. You see there is a certain breed of people who love to have a second job in a fictional place amassing tons of gold or platinum. Then they can show those off to their fellow players ...

This game is about teamwork, putting resources together and having fun in the process.

I don't care one bit for the economy, not in an aRPG. Wealth, to me, is the wealth I see in items for my characters and future characters, and in the crafting/map rolling properties of materials I find.

But, did you ever try to access end game content without a wall street mind?
Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

Nothing wrong with the economy?
Oh hell there is, that it exists in an aRPG, that it is the most important part of PoE to GGG and at the very least that for some fucked up madness of a reason, it gates content access, progression and any form of challenge after a certain level, in a so called hardcore aRPG.

Lol.

"

majesw wrote:

Actually the crafting and the economy in this game are flipping fantastic.
There are issues with both, but they blow the Diablo versions out of the water.
The way the orbs act as currency and as crafting materials provides an amazing currency sink, and crafting only really fails when you attempt to craft end-game items. This is by design since once you get end-game items you don't need to craft anymore.

I don't think anyone has ever articulated what exactly is wrong with the economy. There's nothing wrong with it. It's one of the most stable gaming economies that has ever been created. What exactly is wrong with the economy?

What?

I played Hardcore in Diablo 3 and I never had a single problem with the economy. There was no RMAH, and it was relatively easy and painless to sell your loot.

Throw up piece of loot on auction house for high price. If it doesn't sell, reduce price. Continue until loot is sold. Or just start lowish for a super quick sale.

Fast. Painless. Zero need to interact with greedy/selfish people or potential scammers. All of that crap was removed by the wall of the auction house.

Want to run an actual auction? Easy -- just list the item with no buyout and 1 gold minimum bid. Boom. You have a true auction.

In Path of Exile if you try to run an "auction" with a good item, you will just have 32947239479 people spamming you asking what your "buyout" is, and you have to yell back THERE IS NO FUCKING BUYOUT IT'S AN AUCTION DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN AUCTION IS?

My actual problems with D3:

1) Lack of build diversity

2) Lack of interesting itemization - you just end up looking for identical uniques but with higher/better rolls. -- This is a direction I'm worried that PoE is going in. Too many fucking OP uniques. Cut the shit please.

3) Boring loot system. Because of 2), finding loot/farming was often rather boring. There was very little interesting items you could find.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

"

Reinhart wrote:

There is nothing wrong with the economy. It is just people with half-assed jewish genes who dont have the possibility to become 'rich' in this game. The game's intensive is having fun and not becoming "wealthy". "Wealthy" what does that even mean in Wraeclast ...

I think the uproar stems from people bringing their MMO-mindset into this game. You see there is a certain breed of people who love to have a second job in a fictional place amassing tons of gold or platinum. Then they can show those off to their fellow players ...

This game is about teamwork, putting resources together and having fun in the process.

I don't care one bit for the economy, not in an aRPG. Wealth, to me, is the wealth I see in items for my characters and future characters, and in the crafting/map rolling properties of materials I find.

But, did you ever try to access end game content without a wall street mind?
Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

Nothing wrong with the economy?
Oh hell there is, that it exists in an aRPG, that it is the most important part of PoE to GGG and at the very least that for some fucked up madness of a reason, it gates content access, progression and any form of challenge after a certain level, in a so called hardcore aRPG.

Lol.

You should have realized that this game was built off of Diablo 2 and avoided it if you did not want an economy... The Diablo 2 clones all heavily revolve around an economy... And yeah, end-game mapping sucks. I can't even get there and I map all day. But that's more the fault of drop rate than the economy.

"

tikitaki wrote:

"

majesw wrote:

Actually the crafting and the economy in this game are flipping fantastic.
There are issues with both, but they blow the Diablo versions out of the water.
The way the orbs act as currency and as crafting materials provides an amazing currency sink, and crafting only really fails when you attempt to craft end-game items. This is by design since once you get end-game items you don't need to craft anymore.

I don't think anyone has ever articulated what exactly is wrong with the economy. There's nothing wrong with it. It's one of the most stable gaming economies that has ever been created. What exactly is wrong with the economy?

What?

I played Hardcore in Diablo 3 and I never had a single problem with the economy. There was no RMAH, and it was relatively easy and painless to sell your loot.

Throw up piece of loot on auction house for high price. If it doesn't sell, reduce price. Continue until loot is sold. Or just start lowish for a super quick sale.

Fast. Painless. Zero need to interact with greedy/selfish people or potential scammers. All of that crap was removed by the wall of the auction house.

Want to run an actual auction? Easy -- just list the item with no buyout and 1 gold minimum bid. Boom. You have a true auction.

In Path of Exile if you try to run an "auction" with a good item, you will just have 32947239479 people spamming you asking what your "buyout" is, and you have to yell back THERE IS NO FUCKING BUYOUT IT'S AN AUCTION DO YOU KNOW WHAT AN AUCTION IS?

My actual problems with D3:

1) Lack of build diversity

2) Lack of interesting itemization - you just end up looking for identical uniques but with higher/better rolls. -- This is a direction I'm worried that PoE is going in. Too many fucking OP uniques. Cut the shit please.

3) Boring loot system. Because of 2), finding loot/farming was often rather boring. There was very little interesting items you could find.

I apologize. I didn't hardcore in D3 because of connection issues. The economy there was 1000 times better than softcore and seemed to be where I should have done my playing... I agree with your 3 points for the most part. Though I enjoy the variety of uniques. If D3 had kept adding items I might still be playing.

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Oh hell there is, that it exists in an aRPG, that it is the most important part of PoE to GGG and at the very least that for some fucked up madness of a reason, it gates content access, progression and any form of challenge after a certain level, in a so called hardcore aRPG.

Economies exist in ARPG's for a very simple reason.

They allow you to "trade" items you don't need for items you do need.

Item you don't need -> Currency -> Item you do need.

Without this, you end up with something like

1/10 of the gear for an end game FP'er
1/10 of the gear for an end game LA archer
1/10 of the gear for an end game EK
1/10 of the gear for a....

etc

It's just about allowing people to progress off of nice items they find that aren't necessarily useful for their own build.

It's literally no different from grouping back in Diablo 2 with friends and giving your paladin all the drops that help him, and you get all the drops that help you.

You just put "currency" in between the exchange so that exchanges are hopefully equal in some sense, and add the group size to "the entire player-base."

How is this bad?

Crafting is awful in this game but people seem to be willing to accept a lottery as a viable crafting system just because a mediocre old game (D2) had it. It isn't a game breaker or anything, it is just a shame.

"

tikitaki wrote:

"

TheAnuhart wrote:

Oh hell there is, that it exists in an aRPG, that it is the most important part of PoE to GGG and at the very least that for some fucked up madness of a reason, it gates content access, progression and any form of challenge after a certain level, in a so called hardcore aRPG.

Economies exist in ARPG's for a very simple reason.

They allow you to "trade" items you don't need for items you do need.

Item you don't need -> Currency -> Item you do need.

Without this, you end up with something like

1/10 of the gear for an end game FP'er
1/10 of the gear for an end game LA archer
1/10 of the gear for an end game EK
1/10 of the gear for a....

etc

It's just about allowing people to progress off of nice items they find that aren't necessarily useful for their own build.

It's literally no different from grouping back in Diablo 2 with friends and giving your paladin all the drops that help him, and you get all the drops that help you.

You just put "currency" in between the exchange so that exchanges are hopefully equal in some sense, and add the group size to "the entire player-base."

How is this bad?

The only reason you would have 1/10th is because you are expected to get the other 9/10ths from trading. Were you not expected to do so, those 9/10ths could be looted.

But that is all a matter of time, any way. Your 1/10th would be more than 1/10th over a longer period, the acceptable period is personal preference. Today, that acceptable period is pretty much down to instant. Gamers today, the gamers PoE is attempting to attract, want instant, buying is as instant as it gets, having access to every item that ever dropped for any person means the developer will attempt to extend longevity by nerfing the drops.

This leaves those who don't trade, because they don't want things so easy, out in the cold, as the difference between trading and not are worlds apart.

There are some of us that this can actually work for, with time to give and an expectation of progression v time that fits to playing self found in a trade focused game.

It works until end game when self found progression changes from challenging content (because of gear) to faceroll content (because of overgear and overlevel). This is where GGG really dropped the ball. Playing the game in a hardcore way just became impossible as the only challenging content is gated behind shopping or hours and hours and hours of faceroll MFing.