It's time to face the fact that Totems are a failed mechanic.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

But they've been completely overshadowed by these faux-totems, these turrets that require only a modicum of tactical talent to employ.

I like this way of looking at it.

At some point it stops being a "totem" and starts being a "turret," the like of which you see in tower defense games.

They're ridiculously mana-efficient as well. People say the mana cost of totems is "prohibitive" and "high."

It makes me want to giggle and laugh at these people. You only cast the fucking totem twice and the pair of them will shoot a shitload of times.

Try running chain-WED-LMP on an attack gem and sustaining an attack speed of 3 times a second off of your own mana, and THEN you can talk to me about the mana costs of totems.

...

The "totems" in this game reminds me of Engineer in Heroes of Newerth from long ago, before he was nerfed.

He had the ability to cast a turret on the ground, you could choose the general direction you wanted it to fire, you plant it, and then it would proceed to shoot the shit out of anything it could see, automatically aiming and everything.

It would also gain your attack modifiers allowing for you to do incredibly broken things.

Needless to say it was actually renamed by the players to "turrent" in a comical satire of players writing things like "FCK TURRENT" after getting killed by it.

It was nerfed to a hilarious degree.

I reiterate: Totem Cost being made a reservation could potentially help bring them in line.

"

Autocthon wrote:

I reiterate: Totem Cost being made a reservation could potentially help bring them in line.

I reiterate: Can't make a sweeping change such as it being a reservation without giving more in formation about how you would deal with the idea of 'recasting' totems.

If it was a reservation, that stayed reserved permanently.... and you can't recast totem, totems become useless.

As such they require you to be able to recast them, albeit with a cost, and this should be reflected somehow in how they work, otherwise they are NOT viable

"while totem active reserve mana"

It's a pretty implicit system. You recast the totem it overwrites the previous totem.

"

Autocthon wrote:

"while totem active reserve mana"

It's a pretty implicit system. You recast the totem it overwrites the previous totem.

that would make totems even better. you basically delete your mana cost in exchange for turning "attacking" into an aura.

the only thing you would even need mana for is curses.

"

tikitaki wrote:

"

Autocthon wrote:

"while totem active reserve mana"

It's a pretty implicit system. You recast the totem it overwrites the previous totem.

that would make totems even better. you basically delete your mana cost in exchange for turning "attacking" into an aura.

the only thing you would even need mana for is curses.

This. Unlimited recasting with no problems?

How would you recast it anyway, you right click on the ground and it recasts? And then how do you 'uncast' a totem, or is it permanent that you don't have that mana. Oops I made a totem with an aura, now I can't get rid of it ever until I leave the instance

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

"

nynyny wrote:

And they dont start to become powerful as soon as youre level 90. They always are, especially compared to what you could do as a self caster with the same gear.

Although I get what you mean, precision is important: More like "from late Cruel or early Merciless onwards." Like minions, totems are pretty darn weak in levels 31-40, just about on par with other stuff 40-50, and start feeling OP at 55+.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Proposed Totem Fix, v 0.2
1) Totems now reserve mana instead of costing mana.
2) Activating a totem skill displays the "aura in use" graphic; activating it again simply turns it off, like turning an aura off (this happens automatically when totems die). This means that, if you want to go dual Spork totems with 6L on Spark, you're going to need two 6Ls with (nearly) duplicate gem arrangements. (Ancestral Bond + Soul Mantle builds would be tricky to say the least.)
3) Totems no longer have AoE damage immunities.
4) Totems now have less cast speed and reduced damage (instead of reduced cast speed and less damage). This makes non-damaging totems like Summon Skeletons less OP, while keeping damage-based totems about the same.
5) One-time full passive respec to all players who took Ancestral Bond or one of the two nodes before it.

Serious question, Is there anything in the game you don't want drastic changes to? Just look at every single thread you've made in the last few weeks. All of them call for drastic changes. Make your own game already.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Spoiler

I will never use a totem support gem. It is completely against my idea of what an ARPG should look and feel like.

And I think if I were in a party with a friend or some friends and they started just playing this metagame of Tower Defence, I'd politely leave.

I LOVE the actual totems (Rejuvination, Decoy, Shockwave, etc). I think they're clever and serve their function as brilliant utilities. I always like it when I see people using them as part of their build.

But they've been completely overshadowed by these faux-totems, these turrets that require only a modicum of tactical talent to employ.

I don't think totems are a failed mechanic, but I do think the support gems took the metagame in a direction that was not 100% healthy for the Path of Exile experience. You're meant to be risking life and limb to get the loot, and GGG unfortunately provided players with several ways to do the latter without the former. Totem supports would have to be the most obvious.

Every high level death in onslaught in the last few weeks has been a totem user. Once again, you guys want to change stuff you haven't even played. Play it first. You still feel that way, fine, but until then it's silly. Either way, I've moved on to facebreaker and discharger. I'm sure you guys will be calling for them to be nerfed next.

The whole game is broken , and you went for the totem mechanic like .. are you serious ?

People cried hard about summoners being too easy to play , they got nerfed . Now tell me why should I be forced to play something that I don';t like - like LA ranger or some crappy melee cleave spammer or some shit like that ?

There should be a build / mechanic that makes farming easier , it's not enough that the drop rates are ridiculously bad as in NCSoft bad but now you want to nerf / remove the only build for fast farming ?

Instead of trashing the totem builds .Fix your fucking dumbass passive web that provides us with 2 viable options for high level play and when you're at it , GGG fix your shitty desyncing game .


THEN you can go back and trash the totems too and lower the drop rates even more , so we can all gtfo and piss on your game .

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Please do not derail the thread with your weary, unrelated agenda.

So him stating his opinion is derailing the thread, interesting. Get some air, after all he has a point.

A reason why totem builds are popular to begin with is because the majority of the spells that are at a casters disposal are complete trash and not mainspell material.

The problem with the balancing in a game like this is that it never ends. You fix totem builds which in fact are overpowered at the moment and end up with something else now being superior. You basically exchange one mechanic for the other even though theres not a really a point in perfectly balancing a non comptetitve ARPG.

"

Real_Wolf wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Spoiler

"

nynyny wrote:

And they dont start to become powerful as soon as youre level 90. They always are, especially compared to what you could do as a self caster with the same gear.

Although I get what you mean, precision is important: More like "from late Cruel or early Merciless onwards." Like minions, totems are pretty darn weak in levels 31-40, just about on par with other stuff 40-50, and start feeling OP at 55+.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Proposed Totem Fix, v 0.2
1) Totems now reserve mana instead of costing mana.
2) Activating a totem skill displays the "aura in use" graphic; activating it again simply turns it off, like turning an aura off (this happens automatically when totems die). This means that, if you want to go dual Spork totems with 6L on Spark, you're going to need two 6Ls with (nearly) duplicate gem arrangements. (Ancestral Bond + Soul Mantle builds would be tricky to say the least.)
3) Totems no longer have AoE damage immunities.
4) Totems now have less cast speed and reduced damage (instead of reduced cast speed and less damage). This makes non-damaging totems like Summon Skeletons less OP, while keeping damage-based totems about the same.
5) One-time full passive respec to all players who took Ancestral Bond or one of the two nodes before it.

Some queries about your 'fix', as in general I like it:

Totems reserve mana -> Rules on how often you can 'move' the totem?

You couldn't recast the totem until the old one was unreserved; the previously reserved mana would only begin to refill after the reservation was freed up.

However, this would not make totem movement impossible. For example, let's say the totem is reserving 230 mana, and you have 250 unreserved after all auras and your totem. At full mana, it just takes two quick keystrokes or clicks, and you're at 20/250 unreserved mana and your totem has moved. Essentially, the burden would be on the totem user to have mana equal to the totem reservation available even after all reservations are taken into account.

"

reboticon wrote:

Serious question, Is there anything in the game you don't want drastic changes to? Just look at every single thread you've made in the last few weeks. All of them call for drastic changes. Make your own game already.

I oppose a Self-Found League. I don't think map droprate needs to be increased. I opposed loot options (although now, I want them changed back, so I'm not sure if that counts). Both nerfing Silverbranch and buffing IF were mistakes.

And I lack funding.

"

reboticon wrote:

Every high level death in onslaught in the last few weeks has been a totem user. Once again, you guys want to change stuff you haven't even played. Play it first. You still feel that way, fine, but until then it's silly. Either way, I've moved on to facebreaker and discharger. I'm sure you guys will be calling for them to be nerfed next.

I kind of have. The build? Yes. In Onslaught? No.

And yes, you die using totems. Not often, not really often enough to care in Anarchy, but occasionally.

If I were concerned solely with Hardcore and Onslaught balance, I would actually agree that totems aren't really OP, and no further nerfs to totems are necessary. Why? Because skipping out on that defense works 99% of the time, but then you die because of that one weird rare Goatman with some kind of weird AI grudge against you that just refuses to get drawn into attacking the totems (or some similar situation). All of a sudden your defenses matter, and you die. In those leagues, trying to cheat survivability with remote skills only works for so long.

However, in Standard and Anarchy Leagues, cheating survivability with remote skills definitely works long enough. Totem (and summoner) builds which stack IIQ, IIR, and maybe some DPS as high as they can, while neglecting survivability, are entirely too effective at pulling in large amounts of endgame loot, and although they die sometimes it's not nearly enough to detract from their purpose.

It should be balanced for Standard/Anarchy, and Hardcore/Onslaught can deal with the aftermath later. You might not like hearing that, but it's true. Technically, I'd rather prefer some kind of item-based death penalty for Standard which would make death unappealing even if you don't give a shit about your XP, and only care about farming... but I know from experience that such a suggestion will never, ever gain traction. It would actually be a decent step towards balancing remote skills, but most people simply don't see the connection.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

What if totems used your mana to cast rather than their own? Just spitballin', as they say.

You know how some people don't like the loss of control from Multistrike, since it commits you to three attacks in a row? Since you wouldn't have any idea how much mana you're committing when you set the totem, what you're talking about would be like an unbounded Multistrike that says you do X attacks in a row, X is some random number, could be 3, could be 10. The reservation idea was an attempt to get that feel of some commitment, while maintaining predictability.