It's time to face the fact that Totems are a failed mechanic.

"

reboticon wrote:

Totems DO kill themselves on reflected damage as quickly as actual characters do. High powered totems crit themselves in 1 shot. The only difference is that if a totem is placed far enough away, it will get off enough shots that will still bounce around (if using spark) to do a little damage after the totem is dead. Also, no one with vaal pact ever kills themselves with reflect unless they went crit discharge.

Right now, Spell Totem gives 30% reduced Cast Speed, and 40% less Damage. Let's say your the typical ultra-late-game dual totem build has 90% increased cast speed (49% from 20Q Faster Casting, 37% gear, 4% Alira reward) and 170% increased spell damage (48% from Fork, 10% from Lightning Penetration, 112% from gear). That means the final cast speed increase is 60%, and the cast speed penalty on Spell Totem functions the same as 16% less.

16% less isn't much less; that's why Spork users are able to deal damage after their totems die to reflected damage, and why Summon Skeleton totems are so powerful.

Perhaps it would be better if the "less" and the "reduced" were flipped. What if Spell Totem did 40% less cast speed with 50% reduced damage? The totem would cast far less, making it much less overpowered with Skeletons and harder to circumvent reflected damage; and going from 170 increased spell damage to a 120% increase is effectively 19% less damage. The overall DPS for spork totems would only be slightly nerfed, but it wouldn't be as spread up in small packets, increasing the chance of totems self-killing themselves.

No. Look, everyone can use ONE TOTEM. Hell I have a spark totem on my melee guys.

You guys moan and moan about this and Shav's, but as Qarl has stated, want to die in harcore? Use a Shav and play Spark Totem. It is NOT the gamebreaker you think it is at higher levels, once map mods come into play. None of you complaining about it can show me your high level sparker. Play it before you judge it.

Most "pro" high level groups use a shav culling sparker.

"

Autocthon wrote:

Most "pro" high level groups use a shav culling sparker.

Doesnt really mean anything. Any skill with a high attack rate is decent to be used for an MFer. The fact that LLRF Spark deals a shit ton of damage on top of that is just a bonus.

The 100 IIR you get from Wondertrap arent really worth it in my opinion. After all you can get a pair of normal boots and get to 30+ IIR on them as well so the difference being 70 IIR. Takes ages for that bit of MF to make up for having to pay 30+ Exalted Orbs.

Totems are fine. Ancestral Bond however is a terrible keystone design-wise, as it promotes boring gameplay.

"

nynyny wrote:

"

Autocthon wrote:

Most "pro" high level groups use a shav culling sparker.

Doesnt really mean anything. Any skill with a high attack rate is decent to be used for an MFer. The fact that LLRF Spark deals a shit ton of damage on top of that is just a bonus.

The 100 IIR you get from Wondertrap arent really worth it in my opinion. After all you can get a pair of normal boots and get to 30+ IIR on them as well so the difference being 70 IIR. Takes ages for that bit of MF to make up for having to pay 30+ Exalted Orbs.

I want's saying that makes totems OP. I was saying that shav's spork is (roughly) 16% of the playerbase among dedicated players. Obviously it's a mediocre at bet leveling setup.

"

Autocthon wrote:

"

nynyny wrote:

"

Autocthon wrote:

Most "pro" high level groups use a shav culling sparker.

Doesnt really mean anything. Any skill with a high attack rate is decent to be used for an MFer. The fact that LLRF Spark deals a shit ton of damage on top of that is just a bonus.

The 100 IIR you get from Wondertrap arent really worth it in my opinion. After all you can get a pair of normal boots and get to 30+ IIR on them as well so the difference being 70 IIR. Takes ages for that bit of MF to make up for having to pay 30+ Exalted Orbs.

I want's saying that makes totems OP. I was saying that shav's spork is (roughly) 16% of the playerbase among dedicated players. Obviously it's a mediocre at bet leveling setup.

May I ask where you got that figure from?

I dont really got what any of what I said has to do with leveling. Totems are OP, Ancestral Bond isnt a Bond and at least one of the mechanics has to be reworked if you want perfect balance. Personally I dont really care because my gaming experience isnt destroyed by someone else dealing more damage.

And even if its 16% like you said... thats honestly not even that much. After all its one of the only viable caster builds there is, especially in Hardcore and Onslaught.

Maybe you have a different thought as to what "dedicated players" are than to me, because I'd set that figure a lot closer to 1%. Do most of the top in Onslaught have them? They did. I don't know if they still do because several have died recently. In anarchy, only 1 or 2 of the top seeds use them. Almost every "Witch" in the top of the Anarchy ladder is in fact a Power Siphon witch, NOT TOTEMS.

Totems are "OP" but no more "OP" than Lioneye glare OR Burning Discharger. They are just more affordable. Wondertraps, as noted, are meh anyway for endgame. If you simply "must" have an MF boot, Goldwyrms are far superior in terms of survivability with 50% fire res (allows you to easily overcap fire res for elemental weakness maps) and 60% mana regen which is huge for things like Piety who can instagib any totem.

As for most groups having a spork culler, you do realize that they could just as easily have a culler with Enduring Cry + Culling Strike + IIR + IIQ in a 4link? Using Heartbreaker to Cull over a wand is about a 30% decrease in DPS. Not only that, on the few runs that I went on with the Top Anarchy map group, they didn't use an MF culler. They had a power siphoner with low MF.

"

nynyny wrote:

And even if its 16% like you said... thats honestly not even that much. After all its one of the only viable caster builds there is, especially in Hardcore and Onslaught.

You know what probably the biggest reason for this is? Lack of Chayula and the amount of wasted points a caster must spend to get to US.

"

Novalisk wrote:

Totems are fine. Ancestral Bond however is a terrible keystone design-wise, as it promotes boring gameplay.

That is YOUR opinion, though. I personally find spamming left click right click to be more boring. If you are soloing with totems, you have to also focus on minions and trap placement on maps. Otherwise your totems get quickly destroyed (especially in reflect maps) and you get overrun very quickly.

"

You know what probably the biggest reason for this is? Lack of Chayula and the amount of wasted points a caster must spend to get to US.

It is one reason. The main reason being the fact that barely any spells are worth self casting. Apart from Freezing Pulse, Dicharge and a burn based Fireball build no spell is anything but situational.

"

M59Gar wrote:

Let me reiterate that point: I stopped playing. Totems aren't fun. Totems aren't action. You cannot fix this by tweaking numbers. They must be removed entirely.

As someone that has used totems fairly consistently for the past year - I couldn't possibly disagree more. They are fun, fast-paced, and involve a high level of action. If you aren't spending every second casting something - you're probably doing something wrong.

Admittedly, some adjusting may be in order, but removing them would be stupid.