It's time to face the fact that Totems are a failed mechanic.

"

M59Gar wrote:

Spoiler

Ahem. It's not a slippery slope argument, and it's not a 'nerf all build' hyperbole. Totems, and totems alone, are the cited problem here. There's a reason no other game has a mechanic like this one: it doesn't work.

Let me reiterate that point: totems do not work in an ARPG. There is no 'action' involved with a proxy caster that doesn't spend mana, draws aggro, protects you from the horrible elemental reflection mechanic, and generally allows you to sit back and do nothing while something else kills for you.

It just doesn't work. Please remove totems completely. The game is in beta; it is possible. Path of Exile is an addictive game, yes, but only so far as the player avoids totems. The moment I created a totem build and found my kill speed increased 300-500% and my 'action' and 'fun' decreased a good 90%, I stopped playing.

Let me reiterate that point: I stopped playing. Totems aren't fun. Totems aren't action. You cannot fix this by tweaking numbers. They must be removed entirely.

If they did 90% less damage than they do now, you might have a very unfun mechanic due to overnerfing, but you'd have fixed the whole OP problem. There are very, very few problems which cannot be fixed by tweaking numbers.

The proxy doesn't spend mana? Good point. You could fix that by having the totem reserve mana instead of merely costing mana. The death of the totem would free up the reservation, same as deactivating an aura.

The proxy draws aggro and protects you from the reflected damage mechanic? Reduce its ability to do so; reduce its life so that actual investment is required if you want anything but glass-cannon totems. Make it so totems kill themselves on reflected damage as quickly as actual characters do. Expand the Minion Life support gem into Minion and Totem Life, so that players who want to invest heavily into totem survivability can, but at a cost. (This is also probably a good idea for zombies and spectres; they're ridiculously tanky even without Minion Life support.)

I think more than anything turning totems (and possibly minions) into a reservation mechanic would be a game-changer. True to it's Strength gem roots, totem users would be encouraged to grab the reduced reservation nodes on the skill tree, taking them away from the Witch area. Over-supporting your totem skills would be seen as risky, and many players would replace a totem DPS support with Reduced Mana. Totem users would no longer be good aura stackers. If applied to minions, I'd make the current reduced reservation nodes Aura and Totem specific, while adding a "5% reduced Minion reservation" to each of the +1 Zombie and +1 Spectre notables; 8 Zombies would still reserve twice as much mana as the starting 3, before factoring in level increases to the flat mana reservation.

One point you didn't bring up: Totems are currently immune to burning ground, Poison Arrow clouds, and other forms of area damage-over-time. That's silly, and the immunity should be removed immediately.

"

reboticon wrote:

"

M59Gar wrote:

Let me reiterate that point: I stopped playing. Totems aren't fun. Totems aren't action. You cannot fix this by tweaking numbers. They must be removed entirely.

Protip: YOU don't have to use totems. If you quit playing because OTHER PEOPLE use totems, you were going to quit for some inane reason anyway. And then come back to the forum for the game you no longer play and try to get changes made to it even though you don't even play it. Why are there so many of you?

+1, providing an argument that you stopped playing because a mechanic you don't use...

Newsflash, I don't like cleave. i don't use it. And I haven't left the game because of it

"

M59Gar wrote:

There is no 'action' involved with a proxy caster that doesn't spend mana, draws aggro, protects you from the horrible elemental reflection mechanic, and generally allows you to sit back and do nothing while something else kills for you.

Spot the differences between this description and summoners (implemented in a big amount of games).

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

The proxy doesn't spend mana? Good point. You could fix that by having the totem reserve mana instead of merely costing mana. The death of the totem would free up the reservation, same as deactivating an aura.

The proxy draws aggro and protects you from the reflected damage mechanic? Reduce its ability to do so; reduce its life so that actual investment is required if you want anything but glass-cannon totems. Make it so totems kill themselves on reflected damage as quickly as actual characters do.

Totems cost 180% of normal mana. You have to have enough regen to be able to constantly spam them at higher levels. My mana/sec is just over 100.

Totems DO kill themselves on reflected damage as quickly as actual characters do. High powered totems crit themselves in 1 shot. The only difference is that if a totem is placed far enough away, it will get off enough shots that will still bounce around (if using spark) to do a little damage after the totem is dead. Also, no one with vaal pact ever kills themselves with reflect unless they went crit discharge.

(Dual) Totems have 4 big downsides :

1) Limited killspeed
2) Totems cannot move / repositioning is really hard
3) Totems have the hardest hard-counter
4) You are screwed without totems

1) :
I played at least 10 builds. Totem builds were one of the safest. But well, the killspeed with good gear just sucks. I am playing a CI Melee atm and he clears rooms faster than i can cast a totem. And well, its (almost) impossible to reduce the time until your totem attacks the first time.

2) :
The "Totems cannot move" seems not like a big deal. Well, it is. Because repositioning in PoE is really important. And with totems it is really hard - because of the mana costs and cast time. A caster/ranger can dodge most projectiles and/or at least kite - a totem can't.

3) :
I played around 10 different builds until Maps. And by far the hardest fight was fighting ele/aoe-caster with my totems. I cast them and before they deal damage they get destroyed.
And well, not much you can change with your build/supports here (thus hard-counter).

4) :
Totems deal less damage than a usual caster. You have to invest into more offensive nodes to get a similar damage. But then you have problems if your totems are dead and you have the aggro. And well, you can't deal damage and casting your totems takes quite some time.

I agree totems are insanely good defense. But they suck regarding killspeed. And because of that they are balanced and in my opinion an amazing option in PoE.

Quick change to totems to make them alittle more fair: totems now reserve their cost in mana.

This changes the aura dynamic.

Lol @ another algoqQnerfbot thread.

What difficulty is the OP playing to make him complain? Seems like he can't use his totems properly even on normal.

My totem doesn't last even 3 seconds in maps. better use it for the 1-2 second distraction it gives me before the mob starts to barrel down on me. Otherwise its an ice spear totem to freeze them on the spot behind me. You see top dps players? What totems?

Triple totems with Soul mantle. Can't wait to try that. Ice spear LMP barrage? Triple spork?

And hear more QQ.

Cpme on D3X. I wish you were released sooner the better.

My solution for an indirect 'nerf' on totem builds, particularly dual spork would be to address the very obvious flaw in mana cost/damage potential when compared to a self cast variant.

That a dual sporker (chosen as the most prominent and dominant dual totem build) can cast 2 damage sources (from the same linked skill no less) capable of dealing hundreds of thousands of damage over a considerable period of time for just a few hundred mana is broken.

Obvious solution to me, no doubt with potential effects I've no fully considered, is to attach a mana drain/continuous cost whilst said totems are active, much like a self caster would suffer.

The immediate impact would be a need to alter passive choices, redirecting some to counter the ongoing mana cost and the most likely source of those required passives would be less crit multi, or less ES. Valid trade-offs reducing the ludicrous damage output this build (and others) is capable of.

Let them retain the reflect 'protection', and the aggro benefits in my opinion, instead reduce the damage output a build of this nature is capable of.

That a dual sporker is able to more safely, more quickly and have an easier passive point selection when directly compared to the self cast alternative is utterly idiotic.

"

THEHORNEDRAT wrote:

Lol @ another algoqQnerfbot thread.

What difficulty is the OP playing to make him complain? Seems like he can't use his totems properly even on normal.

My totem doesn't last even 3 seconds in maps. better use it for the 1-2 second distraction it gives me before the mob starts to barrel down on me. Otherwise its an ice spear totem to freeze them on the spot behind me. You see top dps players? What totems?

Triple totems with Soul mantle. Can't wait to try that. Ice spear LMP barrage? Triple spork?

And hear more QQ.

Cpme on D3X. I wish you were released sooner the better.

If I were you I would take a second to look through my post history. EVERY single one of your posts is QQ'ing about so called QQ'ers. You give ZERO feedback, you offer NO suggestions, tips or otherwise. So tell me, just what good are you to these forums?