GGG pls explain the new Tempest Shield to me!

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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2) The spell continues to actively be in effect, listening for events of damage against the player, checking if they were blocked, and actively dealing damage to those things. This is not a buff, it's the skill you actively cast continuing to actively do things in the world.
We cannot transfer the skill that is still executing from one area to another. Tempest Sheild cannot "use the aura mechanics" because the main part of what it does is fundamentally not an aura, it's an ongoing active skill.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your insight. Based on this my dumbed-down understanding is that TS:

- increases your block chance.
- "listens" for damage and a block, which if received it deals damage back to the attacker.

So if the above is true, how does it differ from item modification mechanics, say I equipped an item with the following modifiers:

- increases your block chance.
- "Maximum Physical Damage To Return To Melee Attacker"

Both seem to be doing similar things (increase block and listen for damage/block events), but the item modifiers persist whilst TS requires re-applying.

Cheers and keep up the good work.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Zealflare wrote:

I think the question is why NOT make tempest shield run on the aura mechanic? It reserves mana for an effect, just as auras do, with only difference that it only affects the user. You could probably make it run as an aura BUT disable the aura radius in the code and it would work as it is now (only affect the user), but under aura mechanics.

This would fix the whole issue with recasting. Only "issue" is that you would have to recode TS to the aura mechanics.

No.
Auras do one thing:
1) Put a buff on the user (with a radius). Buffs can be transferred between areas, because they are a simple list of stats.

Tempest Shield does two things:
1) Put a buff on the user (without a radius). Buffs can be transferred between areas, because they are a simple list of stats.
2) The spell continues to actively be in effect, listening for events of damage against the player, checking if they were blocked, and actively dealing damage to those things. This is not a buff, it's the skill you actively cast continuing to actively do things in the world.
We cannot transfer the skill that is still executing from one area to another. Tempest Sheild cannot "use the aura mechanics" because the main part of what it does is fundamentally not an aura, it's an ongoing active skill.

Good explanation there, thanks mark.

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pneuma wrote:

I'm surprised that one or the other has not been generalized.

A "Persistent spell" has a radius (Tempest Shield is zero), provides a buff, and has a triggered action (auras have no action).

The only reason why I likened TS to auras was based on the fact that:

1) They both reserved mana.
2) They both provided a buff (4% block)

I failed to consider that the lightning damage from TS was an reactive attack (counterattack?) that could be supported with a number of gems that auras could not. I did note that TS is a self-affecting buff, which was why I had originally suggested to change TS to the aura mechanics, but did not realize that the lightning damage part wouldn't operate correctly in those mechanics.

Seems like TS and RF/AA are the two types of unique buff gems in game atm. RF/AA has no costs but causes constant burn/mana drain as part of the effect, TS being the only non-aura skill to reserve mana but also doubles up as a counterattack that can be modified by support gems. Pretty much every other buffs are on the standard model of casting via mana/hp and lasting for a short duration.

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Vipermagi wrote:

The script that breaks is that of damage-dealing: Skills need to be activated in a zone to deal damage. When transferred, TS will still grant the Block (just like Auras still grant their Buffs), but won't be able to deal damage.

I just tried this with Tempest Shield, but it doesn't appear to work. After casting TS, my Chance to Block increases +4%, and TS reserves 25% of my mana pool. When I enter a different area, TS drops, my mana pool is restored, and my Chance to Block drops back down to normal.

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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Zealflare wrote:

I think the question is why NOT make tempest shield run on the aura mechanic? It reserves mana for an effect, just as auras do, with only difference that it only affects the user. You could probably make it run as an aura BUT disable the aura radius in the code and it would work as it is now (only affect the user), but under aura mechanics.

This would fix the whole issue with recasting. Only "issue" is that you would have to recode TS to the aura mechanics.

No.
Auras do one thing:
1) Put a buff on the user (with a radius). Buffs can be transferred between areas, because they are a simple list of stats.

Tempest Shield does two things:
1) Put a buff on the user (without a radius). Buffs can be transferred between areas, because they are a simple list of stats.
2) The spell continues to actively be in effect, listening for events of damage against the player, checking if they were blocked, and actively dealing damage to those things. This is not a buff, it's the skill you actively cast continuing to actively do things in the world.
We cannot transfer the skill that is still executing from one area to another. Tempest Sheild cannot "use the aura mechanics" because the main part of what it does is fundamentally not an aura, it's an ongoing active skill.

Really (really) simple change (possibly).

Automatic recast on area switch. That should be doable should it not?

Check if TS was on in the last non-town area.
Cast TS (for free?) if it is currently in your gear.

Seems like a simple fix to a QoL issue. But I could be wrong.

Turn it into an aura that doesn't benefit from aura passives/mods and affects only the player.

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battled wrote:

Turn it into an aura that doesn't benefit from aura passives/mods and affects only the player.

Spells (the damage portion of TS) can't be carried form area to area passively. This has been repeated several times in the thread, and the primary reaosn TS doesn't stay between areas (it used to, it works exactly like an aura right now including benefits form aura passives mods it simply turns off on area change).

Basically if it was turned into an aura the reflection on block would have to be made into a stat effect, which would no longer benefit from increased lightning damage or be able to crit (see reflect damage on shields).

As far I am concerned the damage of TS can be removed :D

But of course I understand this is not possible, but let's not making this more complex then it is.

Nobody is asking to change systems and mechanics, people just don't want to keep casting TS every time they switch areas.

The skill can be turned on and off right? Just make sure it is always turned on/always casted, until it is uncasted. Problem solved hah!

Or if not possible, the skill needs to be redesigned I'm afraid!

;)

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Rhys wrote:

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Startkabels wrote:

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any chance that could "fix" Tempest Shield in the process?

This player asks to fix the system that forces Tempest Shield to turn off when switching areas.

This is GGG response:

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Tempest Shield isn't an aura and uses a different system, unfortunately.

What an unsatisfying response, make an exception please. To be honest I don't care what mechanic it uses, all I know is that it is weird that I have to keep activating it.

Don't you think it is very illogical and user unfriendly that they need to activate Tempest Shield each time they switch an area?

I mean beside the mechanic it uses, what is GGG's own explanation for this? Why do you want it turned off when switching areas? You build the game, please don't hide behind your own mechanics.

He asked if this upcoming change to auras would affect Tempest Shield, to which I replied that, no, Tempest Shield isn't an aura, so changes to auras don't affect it. That's all.

Yeah, it does suck that you have to keep recasting Tempest Shield. It uses a different system to auras, and I'm told it really isn't easy to make it persist between area changes. But don't worry, I'll keep making fun of Mark until he finds a way.

That is not exactly true, this was posted:

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Autocthon wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

When you change areas and your auras are put back on your character, they will exist based on the current state of the aura skill - the effect of all the stats in the aura, the amount reserved, and what resources is reserved, will all set to correct values based on the state of the skill at that time.

We're looking into options for how we can make these things also happen at the time the changes are made, if you're not in town, but for now they'll only be when you change areas - don't expect that to last forever.

any chance that could "fix" Tempest Shield in the process?

You misinterpreted his post and did not address the concern he was expressing. Your answer was a very bad one.

It is like:
GGG: "He we're baking cookies"
User: "Can you bake a cake as well?
GGG: "No a cake is not a cookie"

BTW: I understand what you meant now and glad Mark is looking into it so thanks for the responses anyway/

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Startkabels wrote:

As far I am concerned the damage of TS can be removed :D

But of course I understand this is not possible, but let's not making this more complex then it is.

Nobody is asking to change systems and mechanics, people just don't want to keep casting TS every time they switch areas.

The skill can be turned on and off right? Just make sure it is always turned on/always casted, until it is uncasted. Problem solved hah!

Or if not possible, the skill needs to be redesigned I'm afraid!

;)

There's no coding that would allow something to be "always on once cast". It doesn't exist. That's the problem in the first place.

As far as TShield vs Auras... TShield functions exactly like an aura with respect to its passive block bonus (which is mechanically identical to an aura with no radius). It's the da,mage effect that works differently, and I was wondering if the tech that allows auras to be checked on zone-switch also allowed the "spell" part of TShield to be checked on zone switch. It's not that large a leap. Especially considering he says "put back on your character" not "updated to reflect current stats"