Change lightning strike & ground slam to cast/attack where you're standing

In this action game, it seems fun to have mid-range attacks. Even it is weaker, but it makes player moves around to avoid attack (because you can avoid attacks when you are few yards away, and this is called player skills).

I really like to see more close-range attacks with an extension of weaker attack for 2 - 4 yards (straight). Thus, you balance between player skill, skill tree and itemization. However, it hurts evasion builds.

Anyways, LS for me is fun, it allows me to dodge and time my attacks accordingly.

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Torin wrote:

But most people do, it is the most optimal build for melee characters using LS. Asking for people to use it in pure melee is like asking them to use Ground slam in pure melee. They don't, it will kill you later.

That's a pretty narrow view.

I keep 6 endurance charges rolling so I can use LS in melee. I'm a staff tank templar, without resolute technique.

Things I've tried for lightning strike:
- WED/AFD/MPD/FA (settling on AFD/WED/FA recently)
- Proliferation + elemental weakness
- incr. critical damage/strikes + crit weakness
- EE

Now quite obviously, I can't get all those in there at once. It's just a process of deciding between hammer blows + crit nodes, crit weakness + crit supports (for high single target shock uptime) vs melee damage + elemental weakness and proliferation for clearing trash very quickly.

I fail to see why it's "optimal" to use LS as a shotgun. You can only aim one projectile, and desync will steal plenty of your hits.

With shocked status being fixed, I see far more reason to melee with LS, with the base number of projectiles, than to link a MP support and shotgun it.

I loved using Shift + click vs vaal on my LS marauder and staying happily away from any threat.

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Zakaluka wrote:

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Torin wrote:

But most people do, it is the most optimal build for melee characters using LS. Asking for people to use it in pure melee is like asking them to use Ground slam in pure melee. They don't, it will kill you later.

That's a pretty narrow view.

I keep 6 endurance charges rolling so I can use LS in melee. I'm a staff tank templar, without resolute technique.

Things I've tried for lightning strike:
- WED/AFD/MPD/FA (settling on AFD/WED/FA recently)
- Proliferation + elemental weakness
- incr. critical damage/strikes + crit weakness
- EE

Now quite obviously, I can't get all those in there at once. It's just a process of deciding between hammer blows + crit nodes, crit weakness + crit supports (for high single target shock uptime) vs melee damage + elemental weakness and proliferation for clearing trash very quickly.

I fail to see why it's "optimal" to use LS as a shotgun. You can only aim one projectile, and desync will steal plenty of your hits.

With shocked status being fixed, I see far more reason to melee with LS, with the base number of projectiles, than to link a MP support and shotgun it.

You haven't been watching a lot of Krip stream?!
He showed pretty well why ranged melee skills are the boss in this game. LS is not that different then Ground slam, and is most effective when used in such a way. All we want is for LS to act similar to GS. As I said, if we click on creature let our hero run to that creature and attack, but if we click on empty ground let us use LS like we would GS.

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You haven't been watching a lot of Krip stream?!

I went on a big rant when I read your post, then realized all I have to say is this.

Anyone who makes a statement like that just isn't too terribly interested in understanding mechanics.

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Zakaluka wrote:

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You haven't been watching a lot of Krip stream?!

I went on a big rant when I read your post, then realized all I have to say is this.

Anyone who makes a statement like that just isn't too terribly interested in understanding mechanics.

Lol, your logic reasoning is interesting.

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Torin wrote:

You haven't been watching a lot of Krip stream?!
He showed pretty well why ranged melee skills are the boss in this game. LS is not that different then Ground slam, and is most effective when used in such a way. All we want is for LS to act similar to GS. As I said, if we click on creature let our hero run to that creature and attack, but if we click on empty ground let us use LS like we would GS.

Two things. LS might be similar in appearance and in your use of it to Ground Slam, but as per game mechanics they are coded very differently. This has been pointed out several times.

Second, you have the ability to use LS from where you're standing when you click on empty ground. Simply hold down the shift key as you attack and viola, mission accomplished. GGG is very clear about maintaining consistency, and no matter how you use it, LS is classified and coded as a single target melee attack and as such should behave like the other single target melee attacks. You are capable of using the shift key if you want to change the way LS acts to fit your playstyle, but you shouldn't force that change on everyone else who doesn't use your playstyle.

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Torin wrote:

Lol, your logic reasoning is interesting.

Your logic is very interesting too. I'd infer from the way you referred to Krip that your logic is something like this:

"Some guy on the internet uses LS in this way and it works really well. The way he uses it is the only way this ability can ever be used."

PoE is all about customization, about taking less than optimal builds and making them plenty viable and competitive. If EVERYONE (yourself included) only cared about the most optimal build, then we (and you) would only play one class, using only the skills, passives, and items that are mathematically the best.

It's funny how the standard thred approach when some random kid wants something changed in his favour always uses words like "we" and "most" when in reality he has no clue how anyone else but himself uses the skill and only wants it changed to better suit him.

I enjoy both parts of the skill and thats what you have shift for, just you rebind it to space or something else more comfortable. The force attack command is superior in most cases, even with melee attacks if you don't want to run by misstake.

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Aplier wrote:

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Torin wrote:

You haven't been watching a lot of Krip stream?!
He showed pretty well why ranged melee skills are the boss in this game. LS is not that different then Ground slam, and is most effective when used in such a way. All we want is for LS to act similar to GS. As I said, if we click on creature let our hero run to that creature and attack, but if we click on empty ground let us use LS like we would GS.

Two things. LS might be similar in appearance and in your use of it to Ground Slam, but as per game mechanics they are coded very differently. This has been pointed out several times.

Second, you have the ability to use LS from where you're standing when you click on empty ground. Simply hold down the shift key as you attack and viola, mission accomplished. GGG is very clear about maintaining consistency, and no matter how you use it, LS is classified and coded as a single target melee attack and as such should behave like the other single target melee attacks. You are capable of using the shift key if you want to change the way LS acts to fit your playstyle, but you shouldn't force that change on everyone else who doesn't use your playstyle.

People that ask this don't care how it is coded. It can be coded differently. I don't even know why is it important in this discussion. What we ask (not demand or request) is for it to be changed. And your second part is I don't know for who. OP in first post said he doesn't want to use shift all the time. And now after few pages you come in and says "oh, but you can use shift". Lol, tnx for your contribution..

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Aplier wrote:

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Torin wrote:

Lol, your logic reasoning is interesting.

Your logic is very interesting too. I'd infer from the way you referred to Krip that your logic is something like this:

"Some guy on the internet uses LS in this way and it works really well. The way he uses it is the only way this ability can ever be used."

PoE is all about customization, about taking less than optimal builds and making them plenty viable and competitive. If EVERYONE (yourself included) only cared about the most optimal build, then we (and you) would only play one class, using only the skills, passives, and items that are mathematically the best.

Lol Kripp name gets mentioned and random internet people go beserk. I didn't know who Kripp was before he came to play PoE. I watched his stream for a bit because he was the most consistent high level streamer and because Chris might come to it. He was also very good at abusing any advantage or skill.
I think he showed pretty well how it is easy to survive in HC with a ground slam marauder. It is very relevant to this discussion as Ground Slam was also mentioned in this topic multiple times by multiple people.

No, what I want is many near same optimal builds. LS is one of those, it is close to GS in its value only harder to use.

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Torin wrote:

People that ask this don't care how it is coded. It can be coded differently. I don't even know why is it important in this discussion. What we ask (not demand or request) is for it to be changed. And your second part is I don't know for who. OP in first post said he doesn't want to use shift all the time. And now after few pages you come in and says "oh, but you can use shift". Lol, tnx for your contribution..

It's important to this discussion because it's a clear definition of what type of skill it is. The first post the OP said that because everyone uses it as a ranged skill, requiring them to hold shift is unnecessary. Which is of course false because people DO use it as the melee skill which it is. And yeah, I'm here saying that having the ability to hold shift to use it from a distance is the dev's form of compromise on this skill. They could have just as easily made it so that you don't fire any projectiles unless you hit with the melee attack, and then everyone would use it as a melee attack and we wouldn't have to discuss this. Be happy enough that they didn't choose that route.

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Lol Kripp name gets mentioned and random internet people go beserk. I didn't know who Kripp was before he came to play PoE. I watched his stream for a bit because he was the most consistent high level streamer and because Chris might come to it. He was also very good at abusing any advantage or skill.
I think he showed pretty well how it is easy to survive in HC with a ground slam marauder. It is very relevant to this discussion as Ground Slam was also mentioned in this topic multiple times by multiple people.

No, what I want is many near same optimal builds. LS is one of those, it is close to GS in its value only harder to use.

I'm not sure who is going berserk here? I never said it wasn't relevant to this discussion. And yeah, he showed how easy it is to survive when you hide behind a frost wall all the time, using one of the few attacks that will go through a frost wall.

Having to use the shift key doesn't impact the effectiveness of a ranged LS build in any way. The reason why LS is harder to use than GS is because they are different skills, and people are trying to use them like they're the same. Hell, I'd say that freezing pulse is more like ground slam than LS is.