GGG: Is the Orb of Alchemy vendor recipe working as intended?

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Chris wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, guys. We'll definitely take it into account when evaluating what recipes we keep when going into Open Beta.

If the recipes for alchemy/regal orbs are removed when open beta comes, will you allow a refund on stash tab purchases?

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velrac wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, guys. We'll definitely take it into account when evaluating what recipes we keep when going into Open Beta.

If the recipes for alchemy/regal orbs are removed when open beta comes, will you allow a refund on stash tab purchases?

not think so.all you items will be deleted when obt start

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pneuma wrote:

As a "purist" and a gold supporter, I absolutely reject this paralyzing cliche. PoE is as much an experiment in the viability of an ethical free-to-play game as it is a mind-boggling good game.

There will be demand for stash tabs with and without the matching names recipes. There are no other things to even spend cash-shop cash on right now, so it's a bit hard to say that this one thing is going to be the cash cow for GGG.

This being a beta and all, can't we let the numbers stand on their own? Toss the recipes for a few months and see what happens to the sale of stash tabs. If they're both the largest source of income for GGG and these recipes really are the biggest reason to buy stash tabs (both of which I feel strongly is not the case), then fuck it, let them stay.

If not, why even introduce pay to win? There's no need to spoil the experiment so early in its life. There are a lot of people for whom the "no p2w ever" was PoE's biggest selling point; why not worry about the loss in customers when that selling point goes away?

Hi Pneuma.

It doesn't sound to me like we're a million miles apart on this. I guess I don't believe rare amtching/tabs is P2W in a material way, whereas I think you believe it is.

I also think your preparedness (if I understand you correctly) to consider supporting its inclusion if its financial benefit outweighs its financial cost (e.g. lost supporters) is a sensible and pragmatic approach.

Your point about having to recognise that rare matching and the relationship with tabs could lose players is also well made. I happen to believe that this risk is overblown - I'd be keen, for example, for anyone to pipe up and let us know if that's a reason for why they wouldn't play PoE post OB (I admit we have a selection bias).

Personally, I enjoy the mini meta game of rare matching, so would be disappointed to see it go. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

Petrov.

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AirMage wrote:

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velrac wrote:

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Chris wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, guys. We'll definitely take it into account when evaluating what recipes we keep when going into Open Beta.

If the recipes for alchemy/regal orbs are removed when open beta comes, will you allow a refund on stash tab purchases?

not think so.all you items will be deleted when obt start

If you do not fully understand my question please do not reply with 1/2 truths. I fully understand all game items will be wiped except the demigod amulets when open beta arrives.
My question was specifically towards buying additional stash tabs from the cash shop. For those of us that have already bought 30+ stash tabs solely for hoarding of rares because of the alchemy/regal/chaos orbs recipes. Will those cash shop points used to buy the stash tabs be refunded if those recipes are removed from the game? Since as stated in the Pre-Purchase thread I quote:


What can I Spend Points on?

As a test of our microtransaction system, we’re initially offering two small purchases:
Extra Stash Tab (30 Points): Your quota of stash tabs is increased in all leagues. The number of stash tabs is not reset when we enter Open Beta.

Now do you understand my question?

i also think that orb of alchemy recipe needs to be revised. More stash tabs = more alchemy orbs. As for those whose saying just create more accounts just for this, its just too much time consuming and not fun at all (playing time disadvantage also).

For MrPetrov, maybe you enjoy this meta game of rare matching because you have just so much extra inv tab? did you think about people playing for free. imagine you have only 4 tabs, you'll still enjoy rare matching?

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mrpetrov wrote:

I'll try not to reiterate many of the good points already covered in this thread. My view is that the alch/regal/chaos recipe (or any other that benefits from additional stash tabs) are integral to the financial success of the game.

Heck, I've got 43 tabs and it's only closed beta - apart from obviously painting me as a complete knobber, what does that say about this mechanic as a revenue source post release?

With unlimited accounts it's pay for convenience, not pay to win.

I think the purists on this topic, those who argue floodgates/thin end of the wedge etc, should be careful what they wish for. If PoE is not a financial success for the owners, then they'll have to consider selling it in order to provide for them and their family's future. Perhaps the buyer won't uphold Chris' principles with such stringency and PoE will go the way of real P2W.

Please let PoE be a financial success and don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Petrov.

I aggree, maybe even revising it will change the value of alchs, regals, chaos and how often they are used
Both my fiance and I have around 50~ pages or so and most of them go to the alch recipe. We don't really believe in MF gear as well, and we are running out of space D:

Honestly, I don't believe stash pages should be only used like this.

To be honest on the P2W topic, I don't see this really changing it (yes I see what you mean by what you said). But then again I came from a game where spending 2 grand on a weapon (yea 2 whole diamond titles) was required in the pvp. Theres ur f2p p2w >:D

This is an interesting topic for debate, but I feel that there's simply too much information we don't have to draw conclusive lines as to whether extra stash tabs will be pay2win or pay4utility at this point in the game's life span.

We currently lack sale recipes for a number of orbs, and we're also missing act 3, which will presumably contain a vendor bartering at least some of those orbs.

Hypothetically, say nameless act 3 vendor is offering alchs for sale for 2 chromes and regals for sale for 2 alchs. The road to purchase chromes is entirely available through current vendors all the way back to wisdom scrolls, as well as the fact that they're relatively easy to obtain through normal play.

At that point, are the current alchemy and regal recipes and the benefits extra stash tabs provide in completing them still problematic? I don't feel that they would be.

To be totally honest, I really don't understand what the problem is. I am a diamond supporter and I didn't even know about the formula (I'm really lazy and just like to smash stuff without thinking). By all accounts, its not like people are running around with 10x the orbs that other people have, because it is reasonably uncommon to get rares with the same name. If you take such a dogmatic approach to P2W, you will never see a F2P game ever have any form of serious success. It seems unfair to compare the unintended (and minor) benefits of the recipe with other P2W examples such as:

Dragon age Origins/ 2 - DLC basically provided for new areas with the best loot + you can buy weapon packs.
Battlefield 3 - full weapons unlock (why even play the game?)
and plenty of others that people have mentioned (apparently some games allow you to pay for buffed spells)

Personally I don't care wihether the recipe stays or goes (As I said, I didn't even know it existed), but if people are going to ask for anything with the slightest p2w aspect to be pulled, you will have nothing left and the game will fail. If you look deep enough you can argue plenty of things are p2w

stash tabs (even without the recipe) = more rares = > ability to sell to players for orbs
char slots = without extra stash tabs = defacto stash tabs or 'bank characters'
guild halls (don't know if planned, but I have seen requests for them) = cool guilds = more players in guilds
bad ass and rare skins/cosmetic effects = probably more friends, guild members, etc who want to hang with the 'cool crowd'. It seems stupid I know, but seriously all people want to do is talk to me about my diamond kiwi.

Whichever way you look at it, there will be unintended aspects of P2W in POE. For me personally (particularly seeing though I invested the $1000 because I want the game to succeed), I am willing to tolerate small amounts of P2W. I am by no means pointing fingers at the OP, but if people are going to boycott POE as some form of 'protest' that seems pretty juvenile to me.

Okay, I could get a lot of inventory tabs and make all the receipies and earn some extra orbs but I dont, because its wasting time playing.

Instead of removing the recipe for those that dont wanna use it make selling rares more interesting, because right now there some weird stuff with selling, for example 6 mod rare = orb of augmentation BUT NO alteration shards.

Why not make it so you get all bonuses for selling an items, imagine a 3 differernt colored linked 6 mod rare item with rarity that would sell for
* 1 chromatic orb
* x alteration shards
* 1 augmentation orb
* x alchemy shards

velrac , no you cant refund already buyed item (example-when you go in shop and buy tea you right when wanted return tea in shop even if tea good quality and not spoiled?