Reset Skill Tree?

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Patrick92 wrote:

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wade001 wrote:

Just saying that to someone coming in and seeing it all for the first time when the game is live and choice mean something it will be overwhelming if you don't have an easy out for those first mistakes.

Good. The tree isn't that overwhelming either. After I took a couple looks at it and planned out a build everything seemed pretty straightforward to me. I've easily became familiar with the tree. When I first started, I rerolled 4 times because of mistakes or because I wanted to change something. So what? If people quit because of that let them, and this game will be better without them.

^^ thats not my quote..

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wade001 wrote:

^^ thats not my quote..

You're right it was mine.

come at be bro

am I doin it right?

Edit: its just funny because people get so up in arms about things like this, their play style, their theory crafting, their outlook on life, etc. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

Not to mention, we are all involved enough to be in beta, so the argument doesn't even apply to us. I'm merely arguing on the side of the 'little guy'.

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Nightprowler wrote:

Edit: its just funny because people get so up in arms about things like this, their play style, their theory crafting, their outlook on life, etc. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter.

Not to mention, we are all involved enough to be in beta, so the argument doesn't even apply to us. I'm merely arguing on the side of the 'little guy'.

That's fine. Just understand the point of view that some of us disagree and think that you've made a poor argument. As mentioned, quests give respec points, players can farm/trade for Orbs of Regret, and also reroll a character within 2-3 weeks (3-5 weeks TOPS) if they casual. If given all the options they still don't want to play it because "it's too much work" for them or "it's too hard" for them, then perhaps they need to find a different game. Again, not judging them or anyone in any way, just understand that people have different preferences and likes/dislikes in games like most other things in life, that's all.

Edit: Also, if anybody needs help/suggestions, the community has been extremely helpful and I am sure posting a thread (or heck, even in global chat) asking for guidance/help/advice on how to build one's character will be sure to net you at least a good response or two from a couple of kind souls.

I thought I would post my 2 coppers in here as well.

I can see both sides of the fence here because its not as cut and dry as 'derp its hardcore derp' or 'go play angry birds herrrrp'.

What happened with D2 was that, since there was such a penalty for messing up a build (starting the character all over) you had a set number of 'good' builds that people just found on a website and used on their characters. From what I can tell, that is the complete opposite of this 'hardcore' idea that many seem to have floating in their heads.

The same will happen for this game. People will figure out good builds for the classes. A set of these builds will become popular and 'standard' and people will just plug those into new characters.

What I like here is that GGG has not taken experimentation completely off the table by including skill refund points via quests and orbs.

They key will obviously be balancing the ability to get these points/orbs vs the investment in starting a new character.

You also have to consider the role playing element here. Sure you can say 'start a new character noob!' but that sort of removes the RP from ARPG. I like my character that I have spent hours leveling and developing a connection with; and I like the name I picked for them. Part of the fun, at least for me, is making THAT character the best they can be.

I think GGG is on the right path with making passive refunds available, but not easy/cheap to acquire. They could go as far as making full resets available, but only after crafting an expensive item, or paying a good bit of currency.

This would allow people who have played the game longer (across multiple characters) and have accumulated a good amount of currency the option of a quicker/easier re-build if they want, but would keep the consequences there for newer players or those that prefer to keep their currency for bartering/trading.

I also like the idea of a hardcore league that has NO way of refunding points.

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Athoy wrote:

That's fine. Just understand the point of view that some of us disagree and think that you've made a poor argument.

Perhaps you missed where twice now I have said:

As I said in my first point all my side of the argument might be for naught considering the free respec points and the orbs of regret so long as they aren't too hard to come by.

There that's 3 times now.

It is a good sign to have healthy debate about Passive Skill Tree (PST) respeccing. The tree is very well thought out. However, discussing tweaks is exactly what Beta member should do.

I'll briefly repeat some items I added in a related Suggestions post.

1) This shouldn't be a binary discussion. There are many options between no repsec and full respec, refund orbs being just one of those (although the only current option).

2) If the focus was to avoid players simply copying from the Internet, making it more difficult to fix a bad experiment may not be the most appropriate solution. It seems this would actually cause more cookie cutter builds out of safety.

3)If the goal is to make the PST not be perceived as intimidating, again, making it more difficult to fix a bad choice may not be the most appropriate solution.

4) The expectation for a player to replay the same class, as a total clear, in a game where you are expected to replay the game multiple times already, also doesn't seem like the best path.

One suggestion I have is to keep the refund orbs while adding a "prune orb". The latter would allow a section from certain points on the tree (not at class level) to be dropped in on slash.

While I enjoy a lot of theorycrafting and spending time just playing around with the Skill Tree on the website here, the truth is that will turn off a lot of players. And with a Free To Play game the hook is extremely important. A successful Free To Play game takes a "casual" player (Free To Play is meant to appeal to casuals by definition, someone who wouldn't be enticed to spend money on a game at first) and turn them into "hardcore". I believe PoE can do this!

Stating they should just go play another game doesn't really do anything productive. Fewer people playing means less money for GGG. I doubt anyone who actually likes the game wants that.

People should know by in these type of games is the first character you build is the first character you will likely delete. That's how I approached Diablo 2 and it worked well. When I started PoE beta last weekend I didn't what it was or ever saw the skill tree I just started plugging in points and gaining levels till I understood. Its all trial and error that has been said so many times here. Honestly, I see no point in respecs at all.

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tab1 wrote:

People should know by in these type of games is the first character you build is the first character you will likely delete.

So, we shouldn't work towards a means to avoid the delete your first character dilemma? Acceptance ≠ Improvement.

Keep in mind, there are six classes (currently), possibly four (or more) Acts, four difficulty levels, and a PST that allows massive multiclassing options. That seems to be plenty of replaying to me. Why "intentionally" frustrate new players? That's not fun.

The whole game is a replay with different characters anyway. Unless your just going to stick with one for years and years on end you're still going to do the same levels for the drops. So, I don't really see the point.