Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

Loot system hurts the social aspect of multiplayer.

I have been playing this game for over a year and have played many hours in a group. I have a good grasp on the system and a decent PC/internet. When I lose out on a loot drop I become hyper focused on loot until I can ninja someone else’s to even things out. My biggest complaint with the system is not lost wealth but the social harm that it brings.

Right now team mates feel like bots. I can play in public groups for hours and the ONLY two things that I will type Is ‘TP please’ and “TP up’. I don’t joke, I don’t theory craft, and I don’t ask where my team mates live. I don’t INTERACT in a multiplayer game. When in a group I kill…LOOT…kill…LOOT….etc and my team mates play in the exact same manner. So when I group with 5 others players they don’t talk and just spam skills. This socially flat network feels like it is filled with BOTS.

The system turns friendly and social players into aggressive and antisocial. When I play in a group I want my share I am not trying to take more. The increased XP gain and the safety that groups provide is reward enough. When I lose a drop to a ninja I increase my loot aggressiveness until I ninja someone else’s loot. I have no idea who got my loot so there is a 4:5 chance that I have spread my aggressiveness to another player. This misdirected aggression creates a feedback loop where everyone turns into an asshole.

The system drives away the social and friendly while attracting the rude and antisocial. In any business the BEST form of advertisement is word of mouth. The brief timer allocated system creates increased frustration for the friendly player. The frustrated player is more likely to quit playing the game and much less likely to invite others to play. In the long term forcing consequence free loot greifing on the players will severely limit the growth of this game.

I predict that this thread will be locked because the forum mods and devs do not see this issue. They need to remember that their play experience is vastly different than the average player. The forum mods most likely have a friends list full of devs and alpha testers who play with the gentlemen’s agreement to respect the games loot allocation.

TL:DR loot system attracts rude players and turns friendly players into assholes. This will have a negative long term impact on the social part of the game.

"

wrathmar wrote:

TL:DR loot system attracts rude players and turns friendly players into assholes. This will have a negative long term impact on the social part of the game.

First things first. It's your choice whether you become an asshole. None can turn you into one.
Only your unjustified rage, because you partied with strangers and got your precious ninja'ed.


About the social aspect:
On the opposite - the social part of the game will be ruined with instanced loot. Players will join the public party without ever interacting and even forget the rest of the players are even there.

Forums are full with decent people looking for guilds, the game is filled with decent people with which you can actually interact and add to your friend-list.


PS:If the devs catered for "easily frustrated players" the game would be much different already. Thankfully it is not.

dp

"

RestInPieces wrote:

It's your choice whether you become an asshole

all it takes is one bad apple that will damage all the apples in a basket

"

RestInPieces wrote:

BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED 100 TIMES IN THIS THREAD WISE-ASS.(no offence)
To quote myself again:

"

FFA loot adds to the feeling of the game. You go out with your (trusted) comrades in battle, slay monsters and share the loot! That's the idea! And some people actually enjoy it.

Separate/Instanced loot, except the unrealistic and dumb fact that you are the only one looting a monster and the items that drop before you are invisible to others, makes you feel like you are playing in a bubble, which is one of the worst things in an online game. Totally hated the system in D3, it was dull at best.

Fair enough, but those answers aren't considered as great, strong arguments as to why an added option for bubble people to have fun cannot exist. Because you and I won't use it and do not like it is NOT something to debate. There are obviously players who are clearly upset by the loot system, but maybe enjoy the game anyway and are therefore posting their concerns here in hopes for a change? However, if nothing is done, then MAYBE you will lose a certain percentage of your playerbase. The logic behind adding such a loot option is quite sound. I'm quite certain that the only logical arguments against it have been "because I do not approve of it" which is fine and dandy, but shouldn't be considered valid arguments at all.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

I find it completely irrational, dysfuntional and actually impossible to add options for conveniences in the game in an online game. The game itself is competitive.

See above.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

Every single one would choose the easiest option. Because it is an online game!

I somehow doubt that very much so.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

I usually play single player games at high difficulty and i gather that you do you as well. But it's silly to suggest to players to gimp themselves, if they want, in comparison to others in an online game (without giving something in return). You do understand that yes?

Who is getting gimped? Can you elaborate?

"

RestInPieces wrote:

There can't be an "option". It's either FFA or Instanced. I prefer FFA for the reasons i explained earlier which are pretty valid and i'm sorry if you don't agree.

There certainly can! The closed-minded however see it as an irrational concept because some of you cannot see themselves in others' shoes. It's nice that you have a preference, and so do I, but it has nothing to do with why the looting system should be kept as is, or why that having a looting option for a variety of users to dictate rules when in a party to enjoy the game like you do.

"

Common sense says that if your vision is to provide X (FFA) to the player, then all players will receive vision of X. But if not all players are receiving X (people in friends only groups or solo), then why not give the people who don't want it the option of Y (other than FFA)?

"

RestInPieces wrote:

I'll answer again quoting myself.

"

Finally, it's not that hard to communicate with people and find some trusted allies to party with. That's what a friend list is for. You will be surprised at how many decent and respectful players are playing the game. It will also make partying more enjoyable for you as well, instead of feeling you are partying with bots.

There you go. You can receive X perfectly well. Therefore you do not need Y. You have communicating capabilities have you not?

We do, but that is sort of beside the point. Sometimes random groups needs rules to enforce a certain behavior. These groups would be joined by other players that agree to such rules. Ninja=kick groups and maps to group leader are because of the current loot system I am quite certain.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

Also claiming it is hard to find people and accusing the community for being anti-social is just silly and maybe the anti-social one is not the community but someone else... There are threads on the forums, you can find people in-game, i've encountered many decent people myself without some kind of effort.

Actually, I think some were saying the loot system is antisocial, not the community itself. I like finding new friends every now and then, but it's quite hard to find ones that are in the same level and want to do X event with me. That's why I rely on random groups (pubs) to do certain things while my friends are offline. Therefore, it is acceptable to suggest a modified loot system to where a lot of us can enjoy random groups. Not everyone dislikes random groups certainly, but that is not up for debate right now.

A lot of you guys are "missing the point" I believe.

I don't mind Ninja'ing or FFA.


But I do mind how people can physically block you from getting your loot while the timer is still up.

Some people have gotten extremely good at this. Some of them use frost-wall, others body block with a friend.



Either stop the blocking, or stop FFA.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ANSWERED 100 TIMES IN THIS THREAD WISE-ASS.(no offence)
To quote myself again:

"

FFA loot adds to the feeling of the game. You go out with your (trusted) comrades in battle, slay monsters and share the loot! That's the idea! And some people actually enjoy it.

Separate/Instanced loot, except the unrealistic and dumb fact that you are the only one looting a monster and the items that drop before you are invisible to others, makes you feel like you are playing in a bubble, which is one of the worst things in an online game. Totally hated the system in D3, it was dull at best.

That is why and if anyone says no arguments were presented in this thread should be kicked in the nuts to learn to stop trolling and read before answering instead.

That doesn't answer the question at all. I am not saying that FFA is bad and that there is no reason to like FFA. My question was not "why is there FFA" it was why is it good that public groups have forced loot competition while solo and private parties hasn't?


Oh and btw, I don't feel like I'm playing in a bubble at all.

And this:
"FFA loot adds to the feeling of the game. You go out with your (trusted) comrades in battle, slay monsters and share the loot! That's the idea! And some people actually enjoy it."
wtf?
That is not about public games with strangers. I don't get how you can defend forced FFA when playing with strangers by saying how lovely it is to play with your trusted friends and have no loot competition. You are not making sense.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

OK now i realized your views on the game. They are WAY different than mine.
I find it completely irrational, dysfuntional and actually impossible to add options for conveniences in the game in an online game.

Way different how?
I have played MMO games that had different difficulty settings and it was awesome.

If you mean the respec then I recommend that you look up the word "if".

"

RestInPieces wrote:

Every single one would choose the easiest option. Because it is an online game!

Even with loot options the easiest option would be to play with your friends.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

I usually play single player games at high difficulty and i gather that you do you as well. But it's silly to suggest to players to gimp themselves, if they want, in comparison to others in an online game (without giving something in return). You do understand that yes?


There can't be an "option". It's either FFA or Instanced. I prefer FFA for the reasons i explained earlier which are pretty valid and i'm sorry if you don't agree.

I see your point. But when it comes to FFA vs instanced loot in public games it would not come down to "everyone will pick the easiest". Because the game itself doesn't become easier and you don't get more loot (infact, you get less because you won't see what others leave on the ground). IL is not easy mode, it can't be, the difficulty in this game doesn't come from the loot competition, so removing that would not make it easier.
It's only a playstyle choice.

"

RestInPieces wrote:

"

Common sense says that if your vision is to provide X (FFA) to the player, then all players will receive vision of X. But if not all players are receiving X (people in friends only groups or solo), then why not give the people who don't want it the option of Y (other than FFA)?

I'll answer again quoting myself.

"

Finally, it's not that hard to communicate with people and find some trusted allies to party with. That's what a friend list is for. You will be surprised at how many decent and respectful players are playing the game. It will also make partying more enjoyable for you as well, instead of feeling you are partying with bots.

There you go. You can receive X perfectly well. Therefore you do not need Y. You have communicating capabilities have you not?

Your assumption that everyone thinks that with instanced loot it feels like playing with bots makes me not want to bother replying at all. Don't paint your personal opinion (probably extremely exaggerated opinion) as a fact.

Forced FFA in public games still doesn't make sense when you can get around it in other ways.

I feel that it's sometimes hard to see what to pick up because there is loot all over the place and the timers for other players are shown in the same colour (or is it just me? played solo most of the time but tried out group play today). i think it would be better if atleast the timers for your own loot were a bit more differest to those of other players.

"

GhostlightX wrote:

GO LOOK IN GAME....try to get a 70+ Map group with loot rules other than "Maps to creator, loot to named". You won't, unless you are very lucky. No one is using FFA as far as I can see. Not in endgame anyways. Shrug.

Nothing wrong with map to creator rules. But i usually prefer to rn maps alone. Simply because i enjoy it like that.

But, I make those rules all the time. I have a shit load of maps. My rule is simple..

If i get the MAP drop il open another.. If not, i won't open another.

No bitching. Just a simple rule that if followed i will keep making it. If not, later everyone.

:D

"

RestInPieces wrote:

About the social aspect:
On the opposite - the social part of the game will be ruined with instanced loot. Players will join the public party without ever interacting and even forget the rest of the players are even there.

The only time people speak in party is to flame someone for stealing their loot, so it wouldn't exactly be a huge loss.