Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Sickness wrote:

Can someone explain why "play public for exp/progress and play with friends or solo for loot" is the ideal setup? FFA loot is the cause for it, but I want to understand why it's a good thing, because from what I've seen alot of pro-FFA people consider this to be the best way for the game to be designed for.

Im pretty sure you just answered your own question.

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Vooodu wrote:

Im pretty sure you just answered your own question.

Certainly not ideal.

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ZshadeZ wrote:

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viikinki wrote:

I think grouping with friends should be removed from the game since it's the easiest path and I don't want choices.

Only public groups, no invites, and don't show group names or group members in the public groups window so people can't coordinate to group with friends.

Such an easy option ruins the cutthroat vision of the game.

Actually, names should be removed from characters, who cares what their cutthroat hardcore enemies are called?

And this is an example of taking something to childish extremes. It reminds me of my son saying "I can't have pizza? Then I'm never eating again! And I'm going to hold my breath until I pass out!" when he was around 6 years old. It's not a good method for actual discussion or debate.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

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mibuwolf wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Im pretty sure you just answered your own question.

Certainly not ideal.

Really? I don't think it can't get any more ideal than that.

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ZshadeZ wrote:

There being mistakes is your opinion, not a fact. The loot system being poor game design is also your opinion, not a fact. Is it an opinion others hold? No doubt. Do all hold that opinion? No.

Poor game design: I can actually make a valid argument though that it is poor game design. If people wish the game to have fun, then you should include fun in a variety of different methods. To enforce a vision on players is I would argue "poor game design". Vision is what makes a game, which is great, but so is the feedback that it receives. If you ignore the feedback many of your customers give, then they will go away. That is the basics of supply/demand. GGG can choose to stick to their vision of course. Also, I'm not saying the game should "appeal to everyone."

Mistakes is my opinion: No. I can sort of prove that too. If there a large number of people disgusted with the way things are, then you certainly have a mistake in the looting system. If there's at least one thing I can guarantee is wrong with the looting system (by game design), it would be that names shouldn't be shown to players because people think loot is theirs. The game is effectively telling the player "THAT LOOT IS YOURS", even though that is NOT what was intended by the game developers.

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Vooodu wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

Can someone explain why "play public for exp/progress and play with friends or solo for loot" is the ideal setup? FFA loot is the cause for it, but I want to understand why it's a good thing, because from what I've seen alot of pro-FFA people consider this to be the best way for the game to be designed for.

Im pretty sure you just answered your own question.

Well I didn't.

Let me try to put it in another way:
"play public for exp/progress and play with friends or solo for loot" = X
FFA loot causes X to be in effect.
My question is why is X a good thing?

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ZshadeZ wrote:

If you're trying to hunt/grind for something specific it makes much more sense to do that on your own or in a group of friends who know what you're after and are willign to let you have it than ti does to do so in a public group with people who may be after the exact same pieces you are.

Yeah, it makes more sense to do so BECAUSE OF FFA. But why should it make more sense to do so? Why is it better if it works like that?

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ZshadeZ wrote:

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mibuwolf wrote:

It exists, but can be improved GREATLY. How is that a argument to keep the loot system unchanged? I'm content with how the system is, but I'm here to give GGG feedback on what the mistakes were. Are you going to deny every issue I have presented to GGG? I've listed I think around 8. You cannot say "just make friends" and say the loot system is perfect. That is what I'd call poor game design if so.

There being mistakes is your opinion, not a fact. The loot system being poor game design is also your opinion, not a fact. Is it an opinion others hold? No doubt. Do all hold that opinion? No.

When Demon/Dark Souls games were released there were many making the same complaints. The difficulty was a sign of poor game design, they said. You can't "just die a lot" and say the game is perfect. This and that are the same issue, you can't please all of the people all of the time. The loot system here may not be a style you like but that doesn't mean it's a poor design, it simply means that it's not a style that you like.

I'd point out almost 100% of player deaths in those games were due to your own errors, and not something out of your control. Except perhaps in the cases of invasion, but there was a much simpler fix to that than playing in soul mode (hint: It involved not signing in). Here in PoE people are having an issue with lag and server desync issues, as well as pathing. All of these are issues that you as a player have no control over.

At present the loot system is flawed. Fact. Because it gives players the feeling that an item belongs to them when (as pro-FFA has stated numerous times and I have to agree) it doesn't. If for no other reason we need a change.