Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.
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I honestly wouldn't mind this whole FFA looting system if grouping in act3 merciless didn't give (most)ATI users 1-4 fps.
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" It is not forced, its voluntary (at least you choose to join a pub game with strangers) and it’s only pvp if the item is contested; which is not always. Often I am in games where everyone does respect each other’s loot timer without even being asked. If you were trying to say that the game too heavily favors those people who have made many friends, I would remind you of a few things: a) There is still overall less loot then if each of them soloed b) Everyone still needs to be in the same level range c) They might change their minds d) Encouraging players to make friends is a good side effect e) Nothing is stopping you from making some friends too " Perhaps you don’t see it as a valid reason, but it is there and it is an undeniable drawback and added difficulty to grouping. If it was to be removed, something else would need to take its place – otherwise, single players would left in dust and the whole goal of the game would be to constantly stay in full parties at all times. " When I solo I pick up items while I’m fighting and make a habit of grabbing wisdom and portal scrolls as fast as I can so when I’m in a group and everyone is trying to take my loot I have conditioned reflexes. This is part of the game, so I find ways to deal with it. I personlly see almost no change. " When I played D2 I never PVP’ed because anyone who goes hostile is sure to have a PVP build and I built my characters for PVM – that and with all the hacks and scripts out there it was never a fair fight anyhow and in HC you do not take chances. The only use the hostile button had as far as I’m concerned was for greifers to interrupt the game and force people to make a new party. |
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" no we are not discussing of the vision of any dev...hell devs should have a vision we are discussing of the reasoning used "Something is FUN cause i (dev) say so" When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself
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" IT is forced PvP, because community found a way around it doesnt' change it's true nature after all if in a party a mirror will drop i bet everyone will collision the currency and will stop every and any fight till the mirror is in one inventory...eventually if something REALLY good drops the temptation is always there as for the suggestions are meh and we both know that...asking the community to "fix" your system IS bad design sorry When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself
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Non-FFA loot should be an option.
Disagree? Explain why it should not be allowed or link me to an explanation of why it should not be allowed. (Pro-tip: if your explanation can be tracked back to personal greed, you will be eaten alive.) |
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" Time-out. You ask for arguements against your position, but in reading the last 5-10 pages I haven't seen you make an arguement for it. If it's further back, feel free to copy/paste it as a quote. You would know how far back to look, that's why I ask you to do it. I disagree. It should not be allowed because it devalues the choice of FFA for the people who enjoy that loot system. I'm one of those people. I am the evidence of that claim. That makes it a fact. Whether it's a fact that should be considered is up to you, since I only have evidence for myself. However, there are many other players who I know share my viewpoint. I can't really say "hey, be my witness." because this isn't a court room and we aren't lawyers. That'd just be silly. Now, you might say "Well, why should they cater to you over the rest of the player base?" and the simple answer is thus: This game was made for us in mind. If you dispute that fact, read up on where the game came from and who it was made for. This is why the developer's choices matter in this discussion. They show what I just stated is true. The following facts are also true: Originally, the game was pure FFA. Now, it's FFA with a timer to make up for uncontrollable circumstance (such as distance and lag). That's true, and I've given explanations a many times to prove it. This same loot system has been in effect for 2 years. That's a pretty long time for people to complain and nothing to be done. Based on that, I think it is a very safe thing to say the devs want FFA. Badly enough to keep it for this long against negative feedback from part of the player base. I guess, in a sense, saying "It should not be an option because it being an option detracts from my enjoyment of the game." is personal greed, to an extent. However, I don't personally believe that me desiring a game that was made for people like to me to stay that way is so much to ask. I think (I think implies opinion, btw) it's actually more greedy for people who the game wasn't made for to come and ask it be changed so they can have fun in it too when that hurts the ones it was made for. Then we are just deciding which greed to cater too. And in my personal opinion, ours is justified. It was made for us after all. Whereas, the ones trying to change it are unjustified beyond "It doesn't let them have fun like the rest of the players". Examples of why I believe this to be true is the following: There are an extremely limited number of hardcore ARPG's like PoE, if any at all. There are an extremely large number of MMORPG's that have what you are asking be in PoE already implemented into them. So basically, you are trying to turn what little we have into what you have an abundance of. Taking from the "have-nots" and giving more to the "haves". That's just backwards. My above statements regarding how many ARPG's like PoE are out there is further shown when we consider why the developers made the game for themselves, originally, considering themselves hardcore gamers. I would wager the reason they did that rather than just play a game already made is because there were none for what they wanted. So they made PoE, and it grew into this. Now, consider what happens if options are added: You have more fun. The people the game was made for have less fun. (That's not right imo) PoE has changed from being a hardcore ARPG with a few MMO elements to a "not-so" hardcore ARPG/MMO (Keep adding elements and it will eventually just be another MMO) I understand that you don't understand how that could be, but it's true. Regarding your understanding of players like me and how adding options would detract for our fun in the game, it's just like, somehow, NFL players play Football because they enjoy it. I'll never understand that. Ever. This is not a weak analogy. It's the same thing with a different subject matter. You are in my position in this analogy and I in the NFL players position. I enjoy the game as is, so much so, that if I could have it as my job, I would. (Most hardcore players are like this) So I don't expect you to understand why you having an option to play differently from me, but still be in the same game as me, is effecting me in how you play differently than I do. All you must understand is that it does, not why it does, because you can't. Last edited by TremorAcePV#7356 on Mar 1, 2013, 3:25:13 PM
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" You are wrong, don't try to understand why, because you can't. |
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" Its forced onto anyone who wants to pub. That is forcing it. The pvp is always there. Some of those games where no one pvp's......nothing REALLY good drops on the ground. If there isn't much temptation then people tend to not care as much. Did those other people that you don't know just ignore the exlated on the ground? I seriously doubt it. " Its an unneeded drawback. IMO it should be a playstyle change only. Having a drawback just for the sake of being a drawback isn't necessarily a good thing. The devs could do all sorts of crap to make the game more difficult, that doesn't mean that they should. IMO single player games should be left in the dust. Should players not be encouraged to pub?? Why not? Again, private parties are the easiest way to play, yet you don't seem to have a problem with them. " I personally don't see this game as a game made for people with superb reflexes. That sounds more like a twitch first person shooter skill. This is an ARPG, and not a pvp only one either. " Your not ok with griefers through a hostile button but your fine with griefers in this looting system? Standard Forever
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" This line of thinking still baffles me. The game would still be basically the same, except those people in your FFA game would actually want to be there and play it as intended, competitively. But if its not forced onto everyone your going to turn and leave the game? I submit that I care more about this game than you do. I will stay regardless of if its changed or not. " This is essentially name calling. If you want to argue it then why don't you explain whats so hardcore about standing on top of drops....having a faster internet connection....Spam clicking skills....Getting lucky with where an item drops. Whats so skillful about it? " Interesting story. Whats that have to do with loot competition or why you would leave the game if there was another option available? " Are you going to try to argue that there is no leeching in FFA? Its arguable worse in FFA, someone not only isn't helping but is also ninjaing the drops that the TEAM is earning. If you think that only people who need help clearing want FFA gone then your just plain wrong. " Never played WOW or any MMO, I think D3 is bad. Whats that have to do with anything? Standard Forever
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I think what we really need here, is for these self-proclaimed Hardcore players, to define a few terms for us then. Oh and how about some questions while we're at it.
1. Define "Loot Tension". My current: The idea that you need PvP added into everything you can in order to get your adrenaline high off of either screwing over other players, or drinking in their tears. AKA you're a griefer or similar. I've got to assume you have another definition because otherwise what kind of a community are you looking for here? 2. Define "Hardcore". My current: Someone who invests probably inordinate amounts of time into something because they enjoy it greatly. Often goes along with a superiority complex that means they're better because they have more time to spend on it, and the knowledge gained through such play time. "All you must understand is that it does, not why it does, because you can't." 3. Why would adding more looting options ruin FFA? My current: Because then I can't troll people when they ask in the game name for me to be polite. Also because of reasons you'd never understand not being as Hardcore as I am. Also, then no one would play FFA. IMO I see no reason the devs can't create the game they want to play. But, they should be clear about it, and the current loot system is not. What we have is an example of, saying one thing and doing another. I understand, and hope, it's supposed to be a bandage until server issues etc. are fixed. But the current system gives the wrong idea if they want it to end up as true FFA in my book. All statements in this post are opinion. If I've offended you then tough, but stop hiding behind BS, and try to make yourself understood instead of speaking in circles. Honestly, that goes for both sides often enough in this thread, I just see it happening more from the Pro-FFA only side. (I'm human, I'm biased. So what? I'll at least admit it's probably coming from both I just don't see it offhand.) |
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