Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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iamstryker wrote:

This isn't remotely the only reason people give.

Then what is the reason?

And I would imagine it's a very good one since you'd be willing to hinder yourself in getting loot so much just to have it.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

What you are describing is a true allocation loot system, separated by instance. This is different from purely instanced loot. Purely instanced loot is completely irrelevant of group members. Meaning, it drops loot as if you are alone. It does this for all players in their personal instance. (Further explained below)

That is what is generally called "instanced loot". It means that the items you see are yours to pick up, and yes, that is similar to when you play alone. It's just that behind the scenes, the drop rate and item quantity is the same as with FFA.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

- That would defeat the reason people claim to want another option besides FFA. It's to get all the loot. No other reason.

I haven't seen anyone claiming they want the same loot as everybody else here, but then again I haven't read the entire thread. Claiming "no other reason" proves you have read even less of it, however.

The reasons I've seen, and that I have been giving myself, is to shift the focus from loot hawking/griefing to pure combat. When an item drops and is allocated to me, I would like to know that it stays like that until the combat is over and I can think things over. I would like to know that others in the party won't hawk over items as soon as they drop, mid-combat, and lose focus.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

If they get the amount of loot that would normally drop divided by the number of group members, it would basically not be different than playing FFA. The only difference really being that they are limited to what they see and can't pick up anything else besides it.

You're getting it, sort of! Yes, it's the same quality/quantity of items like in FFA loot! The only difference IS you are limited to see and pick up that which the system allocated to you. Your loot only exists in your "loot instance", so you'll know you can take your time and that others can't simply vacuum up every item they see just because YOU wanted to focus solely on combat.

I think we might finally be getting somewhere! :)

EDIT: There, I even put the most common argument here for instanced loot in bold. Can't miss it.

I don't know how your arguing so hard and so long and still don't understand why people don't want this system.

Its because we simply don't enjoy competeing with eachother instead of cooperating. PVE, us against the monsters. The current system encourages players to take the focus off of the monsters and onto the loot. You can't play the game the way that you want because in order to get the loot you have to disengage from combat and sprint to the loot. Thats a huge difference in playstyle and some people ABSOLUTELY HATE IT.

And they hate it to the point that they would rather get less loot overall and NOT have to compete for it.

Thats just a general synopsis of ONE good reason people would rather have instanced or any other NON competitive system.

Other good reasons include....

The system is not fair....slanted towards melee, good connections, loot campers.

It keeps players in single players or private games instead of being more social. They would rather be in pubic games but do not want to run the risk of losing a very good drop.

Those are reasons enough and to top it off there is really no decent reason why this game cannot satisfy both camps. Its already trying to please both sides but its failing at that.

Edit: And yes I would rather get less loot and not have to play the click fest mini game that the devs think is soooo much fun.

This. This this this this this this this this this. Always and forever this.



EDIT: Oh, and first on page 666. OooOOOOoooOOOOOOoooh.

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mercetron wrote:

Spoiler

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TremorAcePV wrote:

What you are describing is a true allocation loot system, separated by instance. This is different from purely instanced loot. Purely instanced loot is completely irrelevant of group members. Meaning, it drops loot as if you are alone. It does this for all players in their personal instance. (Further explained below)

That is what is generally called "instanced loot". It means that the items you see are yours to pick up, and yes, that is similar to when you play alone. It's just that behind the scenes, the drop rate and item quantity is the same as with FFA.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

- That would defeat the reason people claim to want another option besides FFA. It's to get all the loot. No other reason.

I haven't seen anyone claiming they want the same loot as everybody else here, but then again I haven't read the entire thread. Claiming "no other reason" proves you have read even less of it, however.

The reasons I've seen, and that I have been giving myself, is to shift the focus from loot hawking/griefing to pure combat. When an item drops and is allocated to me, I would like to know that it stays like that until the combat is over and I can think things over. I would like to know that others in the party won't hawk over items as soon as they drop, mid-combat, and lose focus.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

If they get the amount of loot that would normally drop divided by the number of group members, it would basically not be different than playing FFA. The only difference really being that they are limited to what they see and can't pick up anything else besides it.

You're getting it, sort of! Yes, it's the same quality/quantity of items like in FFA loot! The only difference IS you are limited to see and pick up that which the system allocated to you. Your loot only exists in your "loot instance", so you'll know you can take your time and that others can't simply vacuum up every item they see just because YOU wanted to focus solely on combat.

I think we might finally be getting somewhere! :)

EDIT: There, I even put the most common argument here for instanced loot in bold. Can't miss it.

Well, I didn't say everyone gets the same loot. I said everyone gets the same amount. Two very different things.

You're still saying it's allocated to you as if this means it's automatically yours which currently is not the case. However, I do understand that's what you want, essentially.

Fun fact though: I can almost immediately decide if I want an item. After playing FFA long enough (about a week) you learn to discern if an item is worth getting or not. I suppose people who avoid FFA and play solo wouldn't understand or realize this. Practice makes perfect after all. Two simple checks, rarity, and item name. If yellow, check item name, if something you'd want for your build, get. I'm already clicking on the item to get it while doing this, but if I discern in that very short time that I don't want it, I go back to fighitng. It's about a 1/3rd of a second, so it doesn't effect combat at all honestly. If it's something I want, I usually go back to fighting and remember to ask for it from whoever did get it. Trades occur after the battle is over, etc. The reason I click on the item anyway is more so instinct.

If it's the same quality/quantity of items like in FFA loot, it is overtly pointless beyond allowing you to decide later if you want it or not. It also still hinders you in that you know nothing of what dropped for others. So trading is cut off completely unless someone proactively goes "Hey, I'm a 2H Marauder and I got a rare wand, I wonder if that Witch wants my wand." I seriously doubt that will happen very often, personally. Few people do it as is. Even when they know what dropped. They do say "link the [Insert Item Type]" But beyond that, they don't offer to trade, so the ones saying that are in the opposite position.

As for the choice thing, I don't get it. Pick up all the items you can, then ask people if they want them after the battle is over. That's basically what I do. If someone got what you wanted, trade them for it after finding out if it would be good for you (via asking them to link it).

I think that's the problem ultimately. Not only entitlement, but that people don't trade. I can't remember the last time I saw another player in a group actively trade with someone in that situation.

Still, I prefer my suggestion for loot over instanced anyway. It opens the doors for what the developers want. True cut throat gameplay. That, and it fixes most of the problems.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

True cut throat gameplay.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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iamstryker wrote:

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TremorAcePV wrote:

True cut throat gameplay.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You "lol" at people fighting to the death over loot? (in game characters of course, but still)

That's... literally cut throat.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

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TremorAcePV wrote:

True cut throat gameplay.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You "lol" at people fighting to the death over loot? (in game characters of course, but still)

That's... literally cut throat.

Your too funny bro. I like you.

The thing is, I don't want to have items snagged and potentially kept without the other player sharing. And I don't want to be able to even accidentally pick something up that someone else wanted/needed more.

I'm not that fast at determining what is good or not good while fighting. In fact, I don't want to focus on loot while doing my best fighting.

We're different like that. Hey, you know what would be great? What if GGG implemented an option to let us choose for ourselves! Win-win!

...

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mercetron wrote:

The thing is, I don't want to have items snagged and potentially kept without the other player sharing. And I don't want to be able to even accidentally pick something up that someone else wanted/needed more.

I'm not that fast at determining what is good or not good while fighting. In fact, I don't want to focus on loot while doing my best fighting.

We're different like that. Hey, you know what would be great? What if GGG implemented an option to let us choose for ourselves! Win-win!

...

Haha, your funny.

As long as that stayed in Default, I wouldn't be bothered by it. That's been my position the whole time. (I stated it a bit ago.)

But just so you know, since this applies to Default, the whole conversation is utterly pointless. Default never loses anything (besides orbs used on gear). The economy will inflate to the point that everyone and their mom will have optimal loot at one point, meaning loot runs will be pointless. Not to mention Hardcore characters bringing even more items into Default by dying.

Plus, socialism in the extreme never works. It's just part of it's design.

But yeah. Have fun with your loot ideas. I'll just be around to correct misinformation about the current loot system and what I said before.