Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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killbilly wrote:

what is true? that FFA loot is one of the worst systems ever created that promote grief and botting (pickit bots) ??

in the 600 pages i have yet to see ANY PRO of the ffa system apart the "cut throat" feeling...i have YET to see

You're ability to communicate through text is abysmal. I will attempt to decipher what you are trying to say anyway.

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killbilly wrote:

Is it true that FFA loot is the worst sytstem ever created and promotes griefing and botting?

In this entire 600+ page thread, I have yet to see a single positive thing said about the FFA loot system besides the "cut throat" feeling it apparently gives. I haven't seen it, yet.

^What I will respond to:

No. It is not the worst system ever created. It does however have flaws. Every system has flaws.

One of those flaws is griefing (although, if they wanted the item, there's reason you would too, so there's never a moment where you will take an item solely because another player wants it, which is the definition of griefing in regards to this system)

Making a bot that could do this wouldn't be worth someone's time, imo. So I highly doubt someone would make one that could not only run instances with players but take items before they could pick them up.

The positives of FFA are the following:
It's not allocated. (Good because you have a better chance of getting a good item)
It's not instanced. (Good because it allows (albeit, almost forces) players to interact)
It's what the hardcore crowd wants. (This is for default, I know, but the game was made for the hardcore. That's the simple truth of the matter)

This isn't really a positive, but more so a reason:
The devs want this to be in their game, and it's their game. You have to realize, they aren't doing this for money (besides enough to keep the game going). They are doing it because they love the game and it is their dream.

"Let them have it, and enjoy it, or get out." <-- What I want to say to you about this, but I won't anymore. I realize they want others to enjoy their dream too. And if they are fine with changing that, then ok, but I don't think they should have to.

Anyway... it'd be different if they sold it to us, but it's free. And "instanced" is ignoring server resources.

What are the positives of instanced loot? I'll answer that:
"I am certain I get all the loot."

What are the positives of allocated loot? I'll answer that too:
"I am certain I get a fair share of loot."

What are the positives of a longer timer? I'll answer that too:
"I am certain I will get my loot." The bold is your problem.

That's it. Those are the only recognizable pros to those three loot systems.

Do you want to know why the first one will never happen? Server resources. If you don't believe me, ask yourself, "why are instances auto-closed after 8-15 mins?" Adding to that load will not be a good thing. If you want to be desync free anytime soon, stop asking for instanced loot.

The reason the second one shouldn't happen (not saying it won't) imo is because it goes against what this game was made for. The hardcore crowd.

Now, I get this is for Default, and doesn't effect me at all (since I play Hardcore exclusively), but even that is technically "hardcore". What defines hardcore is challenge. Simple as that. This game is indeed challenging. Even if you don't lose your character when you die, saying it's not challenging to get to end game is a lie.

The reason the third one likely won't happen is because it goes against the devs desires for the game. If it breaks up a group pushing threw on instance, then it doesn't work.

The whole premise of the current loot system is that the group will stay together in the instance. This does not happen. If the timers are longer, it will fragment the group even more. People will wait to see if you get the item, while others push on.

So you see, there is no "good answer." And the alternatives only exist to feed greed. That is never a good reason to change something "for the sake of greed."

It's not your loot until you have it in your inventory.. I don't care how many times I have to speak the truth until people either realize I'm right or leave because they are tired of reading this same line over and over again.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

How many leaders actually lead their group?
How many times does the leader change?
What happens when they change?
What if I wanted instanced loot and the new leader wants FFA?
What if mid-instance, the leader changes the settings?

My point: There are lots of problems with that model.

1. N/a. non-issue.

2. N.a. non-issue. Game remains whatever loot system it began with on party creation.

3. Then make another game. You could switch to private and switch the loot system then.

4. You simply make it so you can't just "switch" whenever.

I count zero issues. Any issue you create, I could try to find a fix for.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

It's not your loot until you have it in your inventory.. I don't care how many times I have to speak the truth until people either realize I'm right or leave because they are tired of reading this same line over and over again.

I don't care, because this is beside the point, and I'm not going to leave just because you're annoying.

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mibuwolf wrote:

1. N/a. non-issue.

2. N.a. non-issue. Game remains whatever loot system it began with on party creation.

3. Then make another game. You could switch to private and switch the loot system then.

4. You simply make it so you can't just "switch" whenever.

I count zero issues. Any issue you create, I could try to find a fix for.

You mean regarding leader choice? What if there is no choice?

"Add a choice?"

What if there is no other valid choice?

".... damn"

^How the conversation would go.

Instanced loot is not an option.
Longer timer is not an option.
Allocated is not an option.

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XCodes wrote:

I don't care, because this is beside the point, and I'm not going to leave just because you're annoying.

It's not beside the point when that's the reason most of the people are complaining in the first place. If they stopped thinking that, FFA would be fine for them. It'd be fine for everyone. It's completely within "the point".

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TremorAcePV wrote:

You mean regarding leader choice? What if there is no choice?

I don't get what you are going on about...

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mibuwolf wrote:

I don't get what you are going on about...

Allocated loot is not an option. It defeats the purpose of the game.
Instanced loot is not an option. It takes up too many server resources.
A longer timer is not an option. It destroys gameplay even more, which the the entire current loot system is based on. Since a longer timer isn't a different loot system, the system would actually work less than it does now.

timer needs to be increased for the mere fact that EU or NA gateway is irrelevant. when you join a party or create your own there will always be NA or EU players in the same party and it increases the ping creating a delay. if the gateways at login only allowed you to play with said servers it would not be a problem with the current setup.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

It's not beside the point when that's the reason most of the people are complaining in the first place. If they stopped thinking that, FFA would be fine for them. It'd be fine for everyone. It's completely within "the point".

So you see no problem with people playing Path of Exile in a party and getting absolutely no loot for the trouble?

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TremorAcePV wrote:

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mibuwolf wrote:

I don't get what you are going on about...

Allocated loot is not an option. It defeats the purpose of the game.
Instanced loot is not an option. It takes up too many server resources.
A longer timer is not an option. It destroys gameplay even more, which the the entire current loot system is based on. Since a longer timer isn't a different loot system, the system would actually work less than it does now.

... I am gonna try my best to not insult/demean you. You are more than likely not a developer or coder of an aRPG game (or any game possibly?) and would not know what is/isn't an option for this dev team. There are ways to fix this loot issue, but the hard part is implementing it.

I have faith that the dev team could resolve the issue many of their players are facing. If they do not do anything about the system the way it is now however, expect plenty of players to just lose interest.


Save my own ass note: I don't care about the loot system and just accept it as is, but I do KNOW it bothers many people and they will quit. You don't want your players to quit. That's potential income out the door. Gaining a customer is harder than maintaining the relationship, especially when the issue affects so many. Performance issues/Bug issues are one of the many reasons for example why people would quit, but GGG is already on top of that issue. Loot is just one more.

Make double totem chars..put totems to help kill monsters and just care about the loot...
Thats the solution for ffa loot