Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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XCodes wrote:

How can I say this another way...

I. DID. NOT. SAY. THAT.

"

XCodes wrote:

Ok, seriously. Tell me how you're not a pansy-ass if what you want is to be able to run around and pick up everything and not have to face REAL PvP for doing so?

If Normal league isn't going to let me kill you, then Normal league should do what it can to make it such that I don't WANT to kill you. If Normal league fails at this, then Normal league is just going to piss people off.

"

Jihoko wrote:

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HeroOfExile wrote:

Im not going through 400 pages but why dont we get the option to make the group either FFA or Greed or Need?

It's a reasonable question, but expect a torrent of unreasonable "answers" (more likely you'll just be insulted). Those in favor of FFA do not want different loot options because they (correctly) are afraid most public pick-up groups will favor whatever non-FFA ruleset they decide to implement. I am not just making this up or trying to read their minds, I have seen multiple people say exactly that. They do not seem at all bothered that this means that currently, the majority of players are being forced into a ruleset they don't enjoy.

What it comes down to is the people who love the "cutthroat, heart-pacing action" of FFA loot are the same people who have an advantage under the system, letting them get significantly more loot than they would otherwise, such as:

* Low ping, which lets them beat people stuck w/a higher one.

* Tankier character often in melee, lets them beat out the squishier ranged guys for loot. (I've seen this justified w/the argument that tanks deserve more loot since they take more risk. In HC that may be true, but in Default this argument wouldn't apply)

* High twitch skill. Practiced clicker of loot, lets them grab loot out from people newer to the genre.

* Last but certainly not least, the willingness to constantly loot-hover even if there had been a gentlemen's agreement not to ninja. These players profit off the trust of others, and tend to justify it w/RP ("we are EXILES LOL!") despite being the same players to make fun of RP in any other game.

The last one is the most important in this discussion, because it highlights the most insidious reason to keep the current system. If you enter into a "social contract" with other people and have no intention of holding yourself to it, you gain a huge economic advantage. If the choice is given for non-FFA loot, the "prey" will no longer join FFA groups. Suffice to say, predators do not want their prey taken away. Hey, that's kind of catchy.

TLDR haiku-style;

Suffice it to say,
predators just won't okay,
prey taken away


Keep in mind, I realize there are many valid reasons for preferring FFA and I am not trying to paint all FFA supporters with the same brush. However, I do think this aspect of the discussion warrants scrutiny. If we are to be called greedy pixel-huggers for preferring the choice of non-FFA loot, it's only fair to point out that greed is the very same motivation for not giving us this option for some of the more vocal FFA supporters.

"

sschrupp wrote:

"

Jihoko wrote:

"

HeroOfExile wrote:

Im not going through 400 pages but why dont we get the option to make the group either FFA or Greed or Need?

It's a reasonable question, but expect a torrent of unreasonable "answers" (more likely you'll just be insulted). Those in favor of FFA do not want different loot options because they (correctly) are afraid most public pick-up groups will favor whatever non-FFA ruleset they decide to implement. I am not just making this up or trying to read their minds, I have seen multiple people say exactly that. They do not seem at all bothered that this means that currently, the majority of players are being forced into a ruleset they don't enjoy.

What it comes down to is the people who love the "cutthroat, heart-pacing action" of FFA loot are the same people who have an advantage under the system, letting them get significantly more loot than they would otherwise, such as:

* Low ping, which lets them beat people stuck w/a higher one.

* Tankier character often in melee, lets them beat out the squishier ranged guys for loot. (I've seen this justified w/the argument that tanks deserve more loot since they take more risk. In HC that may be true, but in Default this argument wouldn't apply)

* High twitch skill. Practiced clicker of loot, lets them grab loot out from people newer to the genre.

* Last but certainly not least, the willingness to constantly loot-hover even if there had been a gentlemen's agreement not to ninja. These players profit off the trust of others, and tend to justify it w/RP ("we are EXILES LOL!") despite being the same players to make fun of RP in any other game.

The last one is the most important in this discussion, because it highlights the most insidious reason to keep the current system. If you enter into a "social contract" with other people and have no intention of holding yourself to it, you gain a huge economic advantage. If the choice is given for non-FFA loot, the "prey" will no longer join FFA groups. Suffice to say, predators do not want their prey taken away. Hey, that's kind of catchy.

TLDR haiku-style;

Suffice it to say,
predators just won't okay,
prey taken away


Keep in mind, I realize there are many valid reasons for preferring FFA and I am not trying to paint all FFA supporters with the same brush. However, I do think this aspect of the discussion warrants scrutiny. If we are to be called greedy pixel-huggers for preferring the choice of non-FFA loot, it's only fair to point out that greed is the very same motivation for not giving us this option for some of the more vocal FFA supporters.

I completely agree with you.

"

sschrupp wrote:

"

Jihoko wrote:

"

HeroOfExile wrote:

Im not going through 400 pages but why dont we get the option to make the group either FFA or Greed or Need?

It's a reasonable question, but expect a torrent of unreasonable "answers" (more likely you'll just be insulted). Those in favor of FFA do not want different loot options because they (correctly) are afraid most public pick-up groups will favor whatever non-FFA ruleset they decide to implement. I am not just making this up or trying to read their minds, I have seen multiple people say exactly that. They do not seem at all bothered that this means that currently, the majority of players are being forced into a ruleset they don't enjoy.

What it comes down to is the people who love the "cutthroat, heart-pacing action" of FFA loot are the same people who have an advantage under the system, letting them get significantly more loot than they would otherwise, such as:

* Low ping, which lets them beat people stuck w/a higher one.

* Tankier character often in melee, lets them beat out the squishier ranged guys for loot. (I've seen this justified w/the argument that tanks deserve more loot since they take more risk. In HC that may be true, but in Default this argument wouldn't apply)

* High twitch skill. Practiced clicker of loot, lets them grab loot out from people newer to the genre.

* Last but certainly not least, the willingness to constantly loot-hover even if there had been a gentlemen's agreement not to ninja. These players profit off the trust of others, and tend to justify it w/RP ("we are EXILES LOL!") despite being the same players to make fun of RP in any other game.

The last one is the most important in this discussion, because it highlights the most insidious reason to keep the current system. If you enter into a "social contract" with other people and have no intention of holding yourself to it, you gain a huge economic advantage. If the choice is given for non-FFA loot, the "prey" will no longer join FFA groups. Suffice to say, predators do not want their prey taken away. Hey, that's kind of catchy.

TLDR haiku-style;

Suffice it to say,
predators just won't okay,
prey taken away


Keep in mind, I realize there are many valid reasons for preferring FFA and I am not trying to paint all FFA supporters with the same brush. However, I do think this aspect of the discussion warrants scrutiny. If we are to be called greedy pixel-huggers for preferring the choice of non-FFA loot, it's only fair to point out that greed is the very same motivation for not giving us this option for some of the more vocal FFA supporters.

I completely agree with you.

"

sschrupp wrote:

"

Jihoko wrote:

"

HeroOfExile wrote:

Im not going through 400 pages but why dont we get the option to make the group either FFA or Greed or Need?

It's a reasonable question, but expect a torrent of unreasonable "answers" (more likely you'll just be insulted). Those in favor of FFA do not want different loot options because they (correctly) are afraid most public pick-up groups will favor whatever non-FFA ruleset they decide to implement. I am not just making this up or trying to read their minds, I have seen multiple people say exactly that. They do not seem at all bothered that this means that currently, the majority of players are being forced into a ruleset they don't enjoy.

What it comes down to is the people who love the "cutthroat, heart-pacing action" of FFA loot are the same people who have an advantage under the system, letting them get significantly more loot than they would otherwise, such as:

* Low ping, which lets them beat people stuck w/a higher one.

* Tankier character often in melee, lets them beat out the squishier ranged guys for loot. (I've seen this justified w/the argument that tanks deserve more loot since they take more risk. In HC that may be true, but in Default this argument wouldn't apply)

* High twitch skill. Practiced clicker of loot, lets them grab loot out from people newer to the genre.

* Last but certainly not least, the willingness to constantly loot-hover even if there had been a gentlemen's agreement not to ninja. These players profit off the trust of others, and tend to justify it w/RP ("we are EXILES LOL!") despite being the same players to make fun of RP in any other game.

The last one is the most important in this discussion, because it highlights the most insidious reason to keep the current system. If you enter into a "social contract" with other people and have no intention of holding yourself to it, you gain a huge economic advantage. If the choice is given for non-FFA loot, the "prey" will no longer join FFA groups. Suffice to say, predators do not want their prey taken away. Hey, that's kind of catchy.

TLDR haiku-style;

Suffice it to say,
predators just won't okay,
prey taken away


Keep in mind, I realize there are many valid reasons for preferring FFA and I am not trying to paint all FFA supporters with the same brush. However, I do think this aspect of the discussion warrants scrutiny. If we are to be called greedy pixel-huggers for preferring the choice of non-FFA loot, it's only fair to point out that greed is the very same motivation for not giving us this option for some of the more vocal FFA supporters.

I completely agree with you.

"

illuminatist wrote:

The current loot system is the only reason I don't join public parties. I would really love to join up with a group of strangers and smash some mobs, but the way the loot system is now really makes unappealing. If each player got their own loot, i don't think i'd ever play solo again.

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ifarmpandas wrote:

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illuminatist wrote:

The current loot system is the only reason I don't join public parties. I would really love to join up with a group of strangers and smash some mobs, but the way the loot system is now really makes unappealing. If each player got their own loot, i don't think i'd ever play solo again.

You'd essentially be playing solo with 5 NPCs, if D3 is any indication.