Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

We've already proved PoE is as cutthroat as Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean in DisneyWorld.

And FFA'ers like you reject true cutthroatness as you all too happy with no-consecuence FFA to allow true cutthroatness.

Oh, the hypocrisy.

For a guy who claims he only plays in party with a close group of friends you are always incredibly invested arguing against any kind of measure that would make ninjaing either harder or with any consecuence.

Wuat, THAT WAS FUCKING IRONY!!
Secondly, I pointed again and again that FFA sucks major balls. You are confusing me with someone else. Go check my post history

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XCodes wrote:

Fail quote is fail. I didn't say that.

What could you possibly mean by casual other than it's easier? Nothing else comes to my mind, sorry

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Vooodu wrote:

L O L.
NO, its not screwing anyone over.


And seriously? Im in merciless doing runs for the past few days non stop, and there's NOOOOOO uniques dropping like flies.

Theres also NOOOooOO body trying to use skills to block people from getting items...



....So you like to make things up to make your point seem more ledgit?

IS that what you do to get what you want?

Then you have bad luck? I have already 12 uniques with a 56 level character. 12 fucking uniques (besides the ones I sold already). Now imagine how many rares I've found.

And btw, there are players that block. Namely, ME.

ps1.Today I leveled up a templar. He is currently 16 level. I got about 10 rares already. Currently I'm wearing rare weapon / shield / chest / helmet / 1 ring / belt. That's without counting all the rares I sold to the vendor cause they didn't fit my playstyle. Are you playing another game?

+1 would also like a new statement from the devs.

main reasons why ppl demand something to change, if i remember correctly:

-equal opportunities for ranged chars
-compensation for latency / connection issues
-players with slower reaction times due to medical issues
-more focus on fighting

what many mentioned is, that there is no such thing as real cutthroat feeling, as grabbing loot allocated to others has no negative effect at all.

despite my first proposal, i liked the idea to drop loot at the location of the corresponding player.

so what do you think of this model:

1.) allocated loot dropped at location of player (compensates not only ranged chars, but every play style)
2.) timer mechanic stays the same, fixed timer duration of 1-2sec (compensates connection and reaction times, no computation of appropriate timer lenghts based on distances needed)
[EDIT: is actually optional, not wanted for FFA and not needed with 3.) ]
3.) Items still show the name of the player it was allocated to, after the timer runs out.

The last one is actually the very important one.
I think the devs would like the players to solve their disputes by themselves.

With player names shown, it has an pychological impact on the behaviour of the player.
e.f. if you play fair, you would wait..until the player walks away and for that discarded his loot, to grab it.

But more importantly it allows to establish basic rules for parties, thus party leaders can define without any additional implementation how they would like the group to function.
You can state your rules in the party name: Loot per Name / or FFA, whoever gets first gets it.

With the names sticking to the loot, you can actually judge the behaviour of group members and act accordingly. Thus, ninja looting in a loot per name group owns you a kick from the party or an unfriend award, as everyone can see what you are doing.

In no ninja groups you get the benefit of: being able to actually focus on fighting.
In FFA groups, you still have the challenge to grab some loot while fighting.

As with every group of ppl, no fixed implemented system can replace good manners.
So how good your multiplayer experience gets, depends solely on your own behaviour and the moderator qualities of the party leader.

What it needs is to calculate drop positions of allocated loot.
The player name must be added to allocated loot, and discarded after it got picked up.

I think this model is easier to implement and try out, as not much has to be changed. And i think its worth giving it a shot.

Personally, I will only play single player unless there's absolutely no way for people to steal my loot. I prefer to focus on fighting monsters and staying alive rather than grabbing for loot when it drops.

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HeroOfExile wrote:

Im not going through 400 pages but why dont we get the option to make the group either FFA or Greed or Need?

It's a reasonable question, but expect a torrent of unreasonable "answers" (more likely you'll just be insulted). Those in favor of FFA do not want different loot options because they (correctly) are afraid most public pick-up groups will favor whatever non-FFA ruleset they decide to implement. I am not just making this up or trying to read their minds, I have seen multiple people say exactly that. They do not seem at all bothered that this means that currently, the majority of players are being forced into a ruleset they don't enjoy.

What it comes down to is the people who love the "cutthroat, heart-pacing action" of FFA loot are the same people who have an advantage under the system, letting them get significantly more loot than they would otherwise, such as:

* Low ping, which lets them beat people stuck w/a higher one.

* Tankier character often in melee, lets them beat out the squishier ranged guys for loot. (I've seen this justified w/the argument that tanks deserve more loot since they take more risk. In HC that may be true, but in Default this argument wouldn't apply)

* High twitch skill. Practiced clicker of loot, lets them grab loot out from people newer to the genre.

* Last but certainly not least, the willingness to constantly loot-hover even if there had been a gentlemen's agreement not to ninja. These players profit off the trust of others, and tend to justify it w/RP ("we are EXILES LOL!") despite being the same players to make fun of RP in any other game.

The last one is the most important in this discussion, because it highlights the most insidious reason to keep the current system. If you enter into a "social contract" with other people and have no intention of holding yourself to it, you gain a huge economic advantage. If the choice is given for non-FFA loot, the "prey" will no longer join FFA groups. Suffice to say, predators do not want their prey taken away. Hey, that's kind of catchy.

TLDR haiku-style;

Suffice it to say,
predators just won't okay,
prey taken away


Keep in mind, I realize there are many valid reasons for preferring FFA and I am not trying to paint all FFA supporters with the same brush. However, I do think this aspect of the discussion warrants scrutiny. If we are to be called greedy pixel-huggers for preferring the choice of non-FFA loot, it's only fair to point out that greed is the very same motivation for not giving us this option for some of the more vocal FFA supporters.

greed or need would be a little distracting with the number of rares that drop but i would like loot to be instanced and not having to go through a screen full of white items when in a full group to find the stuff that dropped for me.

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Jihoko wrote:

Those in favor of FFA do not want different loot options because they (correctly) are afraid most public pick-up groups will favor whatever non-FFA ruleset they decide to implement. I am not just making this up or trying to read their minds, I have seen multiple people say exactly that. They do not seem at all bothered that this means that currently, the majority of players are being forced into a ruleset they don't enjoy.

What it comes down to is the people who love the "cutthroat, heart-pacing action" of FFA loot are the same people who have an advantage under the system, letting them get significantly more loot than they would otherwise, such as:

* Low ping, which lets them beat people stuck w/a higher one.

* Tankier character often in melee, lets them beat out the squishier ranged guys for loot. (I've seen this justified w/the argument that tanks deserve more loot since they take more risk. In HC that may be true, but in Default this argument wouldn't apply)

* High twitch skill. Practiced clicker of loot, lets them grab loot out from people newer to the genre.

* Last but certainly not least, the willingness to constantly loot-hover even if there had been a gentlemen's agreement not to ninja. These players profit off the trust of others, and tend to justify it w/RP ("we are EXILES LOL!") despite being the same players to make fun of RP in any other game.

The last one is the most important in this discussion, because it highlights the most insidious reason to keep the current system. If you enter into a "social contract" with other people and have no intention of holding yourself to it, you gain a huge economic advantage. If the choice is given for non-FFA loot, the "prey" will no longer join FFA groups. Suffice to say, predators do not want their prey taken away.

+1, well said.

Cutthroat nature shouldnt focus on loot pickup, should be about loot duels in HC, PKs in HC, getting town PKd from some exploit, or tppk'd

This kind of looting system will bring upon pickits JUST LIKE d2, and we all dont want that.

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fevgatos wrote:

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XCodes wrote:

Fail quote is fail. I didn't say that.

What could you possibly mean by casual other than it's easier? Nothing else comes to my mind, sorry

How can I say this another way...

I. DID. NOT. SAY. THAT.

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Bahska wrote:

I understand some people like non shared loot in games like torchlight and D3 but those games are a much lighter (casual) style of Arpg.
Im not 100% sure simply making the timer longer is a good fix either, the change stated by the OP (Making the timer proximity based) is a good idea something that maybe should be tested internally and im sure will be.

Note who this quote belongs to.

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Vooodu wrote:

-snip-

Ok, seriously. Tell me how you're not a pansy-ass if what you want is to be able to run around and pick up everything and not have to face REAL PvP for doing so?

If Normal league isn't going to let me kill you, then Normal league should do what it can to make it such that I don't WANT to kill you. If Normal league fails at this, then Normal league is just going to piss people off.