Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Chow wrote:

Heres a really good argument against FFA looting: Ice Wall. Yeah that blocks teammates. You put yourself across from the other player, place a good ice wall and thats the two seconds you need to grab that delicious rare. Thats cut-throat.


What I dont like about the FFA loot is the lag and the griefing. Its the FPS lag when the screen is full of spell effects and monsters, and the occasional latency lag, and the moving item icons in huge piles... These things just make the mechanic frustrating, and unrewarding.

Nonono... Having items stolen from under your feet promotes community building and gives the game a cut throat feeling modern carebear games lack. You see when you have bad ping, low frames per second or any combination of these and you group mates sweep all the valuables that' should make you enjoy and appreciate the game for its uniqueness and the courage of the team behind deciding to deprive players from the snoozefest modern arpgs have become.

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Deruvin wrote:

I love current system. I like that when I am playing in a full game and we are playing all together, loot is exploding from mobs all around me like a pinata. I know that in a game like D3, where you have your own personal loot, the roundly the same net amount of loot is dropping, but I think that being able to see and interact with all of it adds an excitement and drive to play in groups that was removed when D3 went down that road.

I also think that there are some communal benefits that are under appreciated. If you're playing with someone whom has been friendly or shown you respect, you can choose to let them pick up your rares if it's for their class. If someone is being a twit, you can just as easily take their class loots and use them for an alt or the like. I think that this choice adds an element of interest to group play that would not otherwise exist.

I would be very opposed to a D3esque system or any WoW NBG style setup; it's just not how I want my ARPGs to play.

So you do not want to see a fully instanced system. Would you be opposed to increasing the base timer to 5 seconds?

[Self Removed]

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KarmaEntity wrote:

To Chris GGG and everybody else here,

I hope not to step on anybody feet with my opinions after brain storming everybody's post.

Here's what I have to say:
The loot timer is working as intended but, there is a looting problem obviously. I would not change anything but, instead add mechanic to support automatic picking up of loot types players specify:

Automatic Currency: Off/On
Automatic Unique: Off/On

This will not change the stance on FFA (because nothing has changed) but, improves the ability to pick up items in the fog of war known as massive projectiles, White items pools, mistaken clicks and yes even latency (rubber banding). If you're there it should be win/win situation.

I can't vision any other fair way to come about solving this problem equally. Thanks for read.

- KarmaEntity

That's a crappy solution to two real problem, the item spam and the absolutely out of control skill animations. The game really needs a proper item filter, but due crafting making some whites useful, it is gonna be a complex issue. But it should become a priority, already at cruel on parties you get item walls covering half the screen. During beta, the Vortex was insane - entire screens swamped by stuff. I expect custom maps to be like that, specially given the fact the only bonus they get is quantity, not quality.

Besides, a suggestion like yours is essentially almost the same as instanced loot in that it makes really hard to have stuff stolen. This GGG won't do, at least this early... they WANT you be at a real risk of losing on items. They want the ninja'ing, the loot drama, the frustration. See, these guys played a metric fuckton of D2. And one of the things they liked a lot, was the FFA loot. So there... unless something forces their hand, it is not gonna happen.

Spell animations are a work in progress, no item filter, new content, new skills and supports... tons of big things that need to be done and the team is small. That's why it is critical they get a high retention rate right now when there's a massive influx of players trying out the game. FFA loot is big and I hope it does not screw up GGG. Anyways, after a month or so or whenever they start doing the analysis on all the parameters used to evaluate how is your F2P game going we will start hearing rumbles if things are not going well.

Dropping FFA is probably the thing that will get them the most players, but it is a tricky one, you see: as it is, and if FFA is a problem, it will be mostly "reds" who stay around. If they change it, they might get more "greens" mid and long term, but there is a chance "reds" will drop the game. They sort of cornered themselves (GGG) on this gamble. Despite my hate towards FFA (I just had a yellow dagger ninja'd and I'm a dagger user, because Alira got into a corner and the guy who was next to her was able to ninja everything while blocking everybody else... nice job on Alira's arena, GGG, by the way) I hope GGG succeeds.

But as I said before I half expect a mass mail be sent by GGG in a few months announcing instanced loot, a promotion on the shop currency and some new content to boot. But I tend to be pessimistic about things.

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wristdrake wrote:

Getting people in is not hard at all.

Retaining them is.

This will make or break the game, no doubt.

Once a new player gets past the veil cast by the huge passive tree he will have 2 options.

1 Be a soloplayer; very little capital gain on this type of customer as they have no drive to "show off" microtransaction purchases.

2 Play in public parties and stand a fifty fifty chance of disliking the loot system (at LEAST) which you should know, d3 being the lead example, loot is THE reason people keep playing RPGs...

Starting to get the point here?

Risking half of your player base basically at the critical moment of potential retention on how to distribute loot is madness.

perhaps an equation makes things easier to grasp

having loot = having players
having current ratracelootminigame = potentially lose 50% playerbase

having customizable loot rules = retain all players and everybody is happy, not ONE of those "cut-throats" that want FFA looting will quit the game if there is an option to roll on gear, not one.

yet plenty will quit with the current system in place

how can it not be bad design if half of your player base shuns your premier partymaking service? and this will make retention plummet dramatically

easy math tbh

That's a really good point. If GGG's business model is going to be selling cosmetic things, then they need to get people to play in parties.

So if loot rules cause people to avoid parties, then the loot rules are undermining their business plan. Something's gotta give.

Niche game for a niche market.

Nothings gotta give.

Sorry, but you're wrong.

This game was DESIGNED to fill the large void that so many "old school, hardcore, etc." miss in this genre.

And where are you getting your facts to say "if majority of players"? Did GGG take a poll?

I don't intend to play multiplayer, due to this loot system.

I suspect a number of other people feel the same way, based on this thread and others like it.

Am I right? Maybe, maybe not. I trust that GGG will monitor the number of public multiplayer games being created and played, compared to the number of concurrent players, and judge whether their stance on FFA loot is helpful or hurtful.

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st0rmie wrote:

I don't intend to play multiplayer, due to this loot system.

Playing solo for that reason ...... sadly, it's a bit boring over time.

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Crizaig wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Sorry, but you're wrong.

This game was DESIGNED to fill the large void that so many "old school, hardcore, etc." miss in this genre.

And where are you getting your facts to say "if majority of players"? Did GGG take a poll?

It is more of a nostalgic loot system that does nothing but piss off people. Sure, there are a small handful of players who enjoy it, but most players do not. Look at the high number of threads bitching about the looting system. Obviously, the design is very flawed.

Actually, your reasoning is flawed. Just because some threads pop up, does not mean anything about what "most players" enjoy.

You keep saying things like "most and majority" without actually having ANY evidence to prove such a statement.

Hell, I've seen more threads regarding re-specs than I have looting.