"Meaningful Combat" Is Anti-ARPG

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Arriadanae#2084 wrote:

Whenever people bring up Diablo 2 as the basis for what we have here, and wanting an ARPG with "slow, meaningful combat," I simply shake my head because 99% of those people misremember what Diablo 2 is actually like.

Do you guys remember the Venom Lords running at you at mach jesus with their flamethrowers while there's a pack of knights casting curses at your feet? How about the hordes of Flayers who also run at you at mach jesus? Teleporting ghosts who are immune to lightning damage? How about the Claw Viper snakes who also move at mach jesus and stun/knock you back with every attack?

Then some people bring up Diablo 4. Hey, you know that one Rogue build in D4 where the objective is to basically only stack movespeed so you can non-stop channel your dagger throw ability with shadow imbue and detonate everything (I can't remember the name of that skill)?

I play D2 a fair amount still and it just boggles my mind at how lost people get when they bring D2 into comparison for this game and want PoE2 to be like it. Even GGG taking "direct inspiration" from it is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge stretch.

Meaningful combat in a DIABLO-LIKE ARPG has not existed since the very beginning. The point has been to blow things up as quickly as possible within a rags-to-riches gear and power frame. The emphasis here is on the DIABLO-LIKE ARPG moniker.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

Theres a problem with the slow and methodical combat in ARPG game.

ARPG game, since Diablo 2, have established it's identity on a few pillars, and grind is one of them.

You literally grind on certain content for hours on end to find a certain special / rare items.

I still don't understand slow and methodical people stance on this.

Do you really want to grind hours on end rolling, dodging, parrying, being "methodical and tactical", like seriously, all that for hours and hours?

Or do you just want a Dark Souls game where you have good combat system?

Because that's not what make ARPG shines. Zoom Zoom was born from the need to comfortably and pleasantly hours on end farming. It's quite literally derived from one of the core pillar that defines modern ARPG.

And before you want to debate on how I can tell you that grind is certainly one of the core pillar, re-read "GGG" name in full, its: "Grinding Gear Games"

It boggles the mind that the meaningful combat crowd is so anti-ARPG. You come here, demand the game and genre to be something else, to be just like your "omg its Dark Souls Elden Ring", not knowing what made the game and genre great in the first place.

PoE1 got tons of janky 5 or more buttons builds. But rarely nobody ever plays them, why? Because it's horrible to grind with, so the community naturally attracted to and play what makes them feel good. On contrary to your belief, PoE1 actually have the creativity freedom to choose the way you play, you can play multiple buttons builds or 1 button zoomy build. PoE2 enforcing multiple button comboing generator/spender non-sense is just restricting.

The fact that PoE1 is full of zoom zoom 1 button build is because it makes sense and feels good to play, not this "the game has degenerated into 1 button build without any meaningful combat" rhetoric.

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PayneK#3102 wrote:

I find the 1v1 aka bosses the worst type of "meaningfull combat" there is.

Because this is a game with 1 portal and no defenses.

So it degraded to the point of 1 shot them or they 1 shot you.


And you're right that the game is a long grind, And i'm not having fun having that grindy experience pushing 10 buttons micromanaging combos, charges and kiss curse mechanics.