Is PoE2 even PoE?

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LadyValkyrie1#3750 wrote:

haven't played since last year but going to play the new league coming up. I heard they will slow down the game even more?

According to the patch notes:
40% less pack size
40% more monster life

They want you to do the "meaningful combat" thing on white monsters, so yeah.

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Dragoon_Diver#5241 wrote:

even poe1 is a complete different game from poe1 5 years ago

It continuously evolved from 5 years of community feedback and iterations.

PoE2 was drastically different from PoE2 the MOMENT it release 0.1.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

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Dragoon_Diver#5241 wrote:

even poe1 is a complete different game from poe1 5 years ago

PoE2 was drastically different from PoE2 the MOMENT it release 0.1.

Wrong. That doesn't paint the correct picture: It's been "drastically different" since 2019. You were simply out of the loop and made incorrect assumptions.

People like to claim that 2023(?) was the moment it became "different" when they announced it would be a separate game: this is false. It was ALWAYS a wildly different game, the company just hadn't caught on that they physically couldn't shoehorn it into PoE 1 until years later.


PoE 2 (Or OG 4.0) has NEVER (ill repeat, never) billed itself as a copy/paste of PoE 1. Watch the interviews and gameplay videos from 2019. From 2020. From the Exilecons. Etc.

And YOU chose to buy into the beta EA anyway.


In fact, it's actually almost the OPPOSITE of what you are describing: It was SUPPOSED to be drastically different from PoE1, but it currently has the problem of being too close to PoE 1 when you reach the endgame

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

PoE 2 (Or OG 4.0) has NEVER (ill repeat, never) billed itself as a copy/paste of PoE 1. Watch the interviews and gameplay videos from 2019. From 2020. From the Exilecons. Etc.

And YOU chose to buy into the beta EA anyway.


In fact, it's actually almost the OPPOSITE of what you are describing: It was SUPPOSED to be drastically different from PoE1, but it currently has the problem of being too close to PoE 1 when you reach the endgame

NEVER !

Meanwhile, Chris Wilson, ExileCon 2019 :
One Game - Two campaigns
New campaign alongside PoE1, with a shared endgame[...] because it's the same game[...]

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problem of being too close to PoE 1 when you reach the endgame

Problem ? no it was by design initially. It's not too close, it was announced as being the same, cf Chris Wilson, see links above.

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Watch the interviews and gameplay videos from 2019

I did. Did you ?

its poe 2 , thats it.

That's sad... I liked the poe 1 closed beta so much more. It was actually fun to play and everything felt rewarding. It became way too easy and a snooze fest. But it did have an Arena and Dueling, which was fun because it was imbalanced and it made you want to come up with the most broken builds. Its unbalance was the fun part (plus it was optional).

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

I did. Did you ?

dude....you quoted so many GOOD quotes....yet digested none of the context lol.

ALONGSIDE all of CW's comments was the fact that they were intending to "remake" both games nearly from the ground up. Removing sockets, slowing down the game, changing the campaign, changing the speed and style of the endgame, etc. That was ALL part of the conversation.

He literally says ALL of this in the SAME interview that he dropped the "two campaigns: one endgame" first reveal.

You got entirely stuck on one thing and one thing only, and ignored ALL THE REST: two campaigns, shared endgame. YES I even said this was the initial goal BUT even amidst that statement, ALL the gameplay videos and samples were of an entirely different game.

Any person who observed the gameplay, compared it to PoE 1, listened to the design ideas, and followed the trajectory knew YEARS before GGG announced it that.....it wasn't ever going to be the same game.




***I'll also add that, no....the endgame of PoE 2 wasn't designed "Purposely" to be shared with PoE 1. The endgame of PoE 2 was designed LAST, first started in 2024 (and rushed), long after the games were announced as separated. This was ALSO well documented and well interviewed. This is like...the MOST well known thing and problem with PoE 2

Funny backpedaling, don't worry, I digested pretty well.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

[...]has NEVER (ill repeat, never)[...]

Too bad, it appears it was not never, despite you "repeating" it, caps, and underligned.

I admire the effort trying to turn it around ! Professional mental gymnast at work.

CW : "same game"
cow : well, actually, that's not what he meant

Yeah, I'm sure you know better than him what he meant, amusing.

For the love of god......please READ what I wrote and what you quoted twice now.

I'll quote myself because you apparently didn't read it yet:
"PoE 2 has NEVER...billed itself as a copy/paste of PoE 1"

A copy/paste. Nothing to do with whether it was within the "same game" or not.

Context.....



From the very beginning, IN THE SAME INTERVIEW with CW that YOU quoted and brought into this argument (not me), he states all the things that needed to change. Namely....everything that PoE 2 ended up becoming. You didn't bother reading what I wrote, even given two chances and TWO times you quoted me....nor did you even bother reading or understanding the things you decided to quote against me.
And then almost immediately after the interview or reveal (might have even been before or around the same time, or even within the interview), we received gameplay footage of prototype "PoE 2 / PoE 4.0" that literally LOOKED like a different game. From the very beginning.

ExileCon 2019 PoE 2 gameplay: https://youtu.be/KHA3cYpkMYA
Listen to how they describe that game and just freaking WATCH the gameplay. And that's BEFORE they update the tech, this is just them jerry-rigging PoE 1 to "work" with their PoE 2 new-age vision so that they can show gameplay. You can find the Jonathan Gameplay Reveal video and he goes into even more detail about their desire to SLOW everything down and change how the game works on a fundamental level.

I'll say it again because its important: context...from 2019 in the FIRST LOOK, they don't want it to be PoE 1. Slower gameplay, layered skills, tactical play, less aura power, far more strategic beefy and dangerous bosses....its all there right in 2019.

The REAL initial plan, described by CW himself in 2019 along with other staffers, was to CHANGE PoE 1 over the next years to become more in line with what they wanted BEFORE the release of the second campaign, PoE 4.0, and the new systems. It was NOT the other way around...fitting the new campaign into the EXISTING PoE structure. They ultimately decided to split off because of two things: the infrastructure did not allow them to create everything they wanted to implement AND they decided NOT to change PoE 1 in order to make it a "shared endgame" that didn't resemble the PoE 1 that everyone was currently playing. Because that would have been MORE disastrous in the long term for them.

These are not MY words, or MY descriptions: this is literally all they talked about from 2019 until winter 2024 with the release of the EA. But apparently the ONLY thing you and others heard was: Two campaigns, same endgame. And then you checked out.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

The REAL initial plan, described by CW himself in 2019 along with other staffers, was to CHANGE PoE 1 over the next years to become more in line with what they wanted BEFORE the release of the second campaign, PoE 4.0, and the new systems. It was NOT the other way around...fitting the new campaign into the EXISTING PoE structure. They ultimately decided to split off because of two things: the infrastructure did not allow them to create everything they wanted to implement AND they decided NOT to change PoE 1 in order to make it a "shared endgame" that didn't resemble the PoE 1 that everyone was currently playing. Because that would have been MORE disastrous in the long term for them.

They originally wanted PoE2 a direct upgrade / continutation for PoE1 - same endgame 2 campaigns stuff.

But while developing PoE2 they went too hard on "meaningful combat" that is so deviated from PoE1.

So in 3.15 and onward, they made "ballistic" changes to PoE1 in player power, monster power, loot to get PoE1 be inline with PoE2 when they inevitably merge.

But surprise surprise, the changes were so unpopular, the community outrage were too great they had to revert most of the changes.

PoE1 and PoE2 now again, deviates too far from eachother to be the same game.

Somewhere after those years, GGG went screw it and make PoE2 a stand-alone game.

Fact is, PoE2 vision and "meaningful combat" did not work on PoE1 and had push back so great that they have to essentially fork PoE2 into it's own game.

As a PoE1 passionate gamer, I refuse to recognize PoE2 as a "Path of Exile" game. If you insist on "meaningful combat" and Dark Souls Rollslop, you can keep your game, but have the dignity to call it another name.