Is PoE2 even PoE?

One, final aside about Supporter Packs: While I cannot speak for anyone else specifically, I have been an Exile long enough to remember how those packs came to be. Many people following the development of the game began demanding, a la the Philip J. Fry meme, that GGG take our money, in support of the development of what was seen as the best ARPG entering the market.

Initially, GGG demurred, but finally created those first packs to allow those of us who wished to to contribute to the game's early development. What that all led to, with pay for convenience elements later on, is moot. That initial influx of support came from enthusiastic individuals who wanted to contribute, not to buy MTXs. And for some, it has remained that impulse (the accumulation of unused GGG coins being perhaps the best indicator of that). For some, like myself, withdrawing that support has, conversely, become a way of signaling disapproval of recent trends (though I would happily have bought more MTX for their own sake, as well). ='[.]'=

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Raycheetah#7060 wrote:

One, final aside about Supporter Packs: While I cannot speak for anyone else specifically, I have been an Exile long enough to remember how those packs came to be. Many people following the development of the game began demanding, a la the Philip J. Fry meme, that GGG take our money, in support of the development of what was seen as the best ARPG entering the market.

Initially, GGG demurred, but finally created those first packs to allow those of us who wished to to contribute to the game's early development. What that all led to, with pay for convenience elements later on, is moot. That initial influx of support came from enthusiastic individuals who wanted to contribute, not to buy MTXs. And for some, it has remained that impulse (the accumulation of unused GGG coins being perhaps the best indicator of that). For some, like myself, withdrawing that support has, conversely, become a way of signaling disapproval of recent trends (though I would happily have bought more MTX for their own sake, as well). ='[.]'=

Most players buy support packs mainly for the cosmetics. Supporting the company is usually just a side effect of that purchase, not the primary reason. Some people may choose to buy packs specifically to help the developers, and that’s entirely their own decision.

Because of this, it doesn’t really make sense to get upset when a company’s goals don’t align perfectly with your own, or when they design the game differently than how you personally want it to be. At the end of the day, even if you consider yourself a “supporter,” you’re still just a customer.

Speaking for myself, I bought packs back in the game’s early days because I was already enjoying it and simply wanted some of the fancier MTX. That mindset hasn’t changed over the years. I’ve continued to enjoy the game, and whenever something catches my eye, I grab a pack. Even now, despite already having plenty of MTX and more spare coins than I know what to use them for, the logic remains the same. If I’m still enjoying the game and they release something new that catches my eye, well, sign me the fuck up.

That mindset also hasn’t really changed with the introduction of PoE2. While I personally have a stronger preference for PoE1, I don’t mind PoE2 existing at all. For me, it’s still a fun game, just one that needs more time in the oven before it feels truly whole. In many ways, it reminds me of PoE1’s early days. The core elements are there, but it needs time to fully come together.

Even with my preference leaning toward PoE1, and with the company now working on two games, as they should since it’s their choice and their future, I’ll continue to throw money at them as long as I’m enjoying PoE1 and their new game and see something that catches my eye. I don’t subscribe to this weird mindset of “my money is going to the wrong game, now I’m distressed and feel betrayed.” I buy cosmetics because I want the cosmetics. What the company does with their income after that isn’t my business.

And this is also the mindset of most customers who don’t get emotionally attached to their spending on games. They pay for the product they want, get what they paid for, enjoy their time with it, and move on if the game itself is no longer to their liking.

It’s the same reason people buy games in early access. Most aren’t doing it out of a direct desire to support development. They simply want to play the game.

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Raycheetah#7060 wrote:

One, final aside about Supporter Packs: While I cannot speak for anyone else specifically, I have been an Exile long enough to remember how those packs came to be. Many people following the development of the game began demanding, a la the Philip J. Fry meme, that GGG take our money, in support of the development of what was seen as the best ARPG entering the market.

Initially, GGG demurred, but finally created those first packs to allow those of us who wished to to contribute to the game's early development. What that all led to, with pay for convenience elements later on, is moot. That initial influx of support came from enthusiastic individuals who wanted to contribute, not to buy MTXs. And for some, it has remained that impulse (the accumulation of unused GGG coins being perhaps the best indicator of that). For some, like myself, withdrawing that support has, conversely, become a way of signaling disapproval of recent trends (though I would happily have bought more MTX for their own sake, as well). ='[.]'=

GGG used to be a small indie studio with no outside funding basically. I hope it is understood they no longer operate under those circumstances

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ArtCrusade#4438 wrote:

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Raycheetah#7060 wrote:

One, final aside about Supporter Packs: While I cannot speak for anyone else specifically, I have been an Exile long enough to remember how those packs came to be. Many people following the development of the game began demanding, a la the Philip J. Fry meme, that GGG take our money, in support of the development of what was seen as the best ARPG entering the market.

Initially, GGG demurred, but finally created those first packs to allow those of us who wished to to contribute to the game's early development. What that all led to, with pay for convenience elements later on, is moot. That initial influx of support came from enthusiastic individuals who wanted to contribute, not to buy MTXs. And for some, it has remained that impulse (the accumulation of unused GGG coins being perhaps the best indicator of that). For some, like myself, withdrawing that support has, conversely, become a way of signaling disapproval of recent trends (though I would happily have bought more MTX for their own sake, as well). ='[.]'=

GGG used to be a small indie studio with no outside funding basically. I hope it is understood they no longer operate under those circumstances

Now that's the understated truth

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

No its actually not powerful in the slightest. We may also agree that sugar is sweet or water is wet, but it doesn't make the topic profound or wothy of discussion.

wow....way to miss the mark completely lol. The POINT was that, IN A TOPIC ABOUT POE, if both opposing sides agree on something that is being argued within a thread......then that adds incredible strength to the fact that said argument against both our points is likely ridiculously off-base.

That is a powerful statement. Consider politics.....in the rare moments when the opposing sides join together, things get done.


This is why I remember interactions with you....

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Raycheetah#7060 wrote:

One, final aside about Supporter Packs

You are clearly hung up on the name.....do you know that entire teams of people and multiple meetings tend to go into naming things for precisely this reason? A good name can make all the difference in manipulating the customers.

It would actually be far more believable if these were ACTUAL "supporter packs"....if they came with zero products. A full straight up donation to the company. But that isn't what they are. You may PERSONALLY believe that's what you are doing (have no interest in the cosmetic).....but that isn't the product you are buying. Manipulation.

Even the banners on the forum you get from making the purchases are a form of manipulation: for you and for all the other players. It's simply free advertising.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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Bosscannon#3325 wrote:

No its actually not powerful in the slightest. We may also agree that sugar is sweet or water is wet, but it doesn't make the topic profound or wothy of discussion.

wow....way to miss the mark completely lol. The POINT was that, IN A TOPIC ABOUT POE, if both opposing sides agree on something that is being argued within a thread......then that adds incredible strength to the fact that said argument against both our points is likely ridiculously off-base.

That is a powerful statement. Consider politics.....in the rare moments when the opposing sides join together, things get done.


This is why I remember interactions with you....

"

Raycheetah#7060 wrote:

One, final aside about Supporter Packs

You are clearly hung up on the name.....do you know that entire teams of people and multiple meetings tend to go into naming things for precisely this reason? A good name can make all the difference in manipulating the customers.

It would actually be far more believable if these were ACTUAL "supporter packs"....if they came with zero products. A full straight up donation to the company. But that isn't what they are. You may PERSONALLY believe that's what you are doing (have no interest in the cosmetic).....but that isn't the product you are buying. Manipulation.

Even the banners on the forum you get from making the purchases are a form of manipulation: for you and for all the other players. It's simply free advertising.

What you don't understand is that:

Yes, calling it a Support Pack could have just been a marketing ploy from GGG to get money from their customers as you have put.

But it does not diminish people with actual goodwill, believing that they're Supporting the company and the game they love by buying those packs.

I, and I believe there are many people like me, actually had goodwill while making those purchases.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

But it does not diminish people with actual goodwill, believing that they're Supporting the company and the game they love by buying those packs.

I, and I believe there are many people like me, actually had goodwill while making those purchases.

Don't get me wrong, y'all can feel that way and there's nothing wrong with it.

What's wrong is complaining that you aren't receiving something you spent money for.......when you did. This right here is the problem. Not personal feelings of "support"

Goodwill is giving something without expecting anything in return.

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nagisanzeninzz#2697 wrote:

Yes, calling it a Support Pack could have just been a marketing ploy from GGG to get money from their customers as you have put.

But it does not diminish people with actual goodwill, believing that they're Supporting the company and the game they love by buying those packs.

I, and I believe there are many people like me, actually had goodwill while making those purchases.

Yes, calling it a Support Pack could very well have been a marketing ploy from GGG to get money from their customers as you mentioned. Of course if you run a company your goal is to bring in money and not spend without any gains. It would be true goodwill if someone created a game, never added a single paid feature, and ran it solely on their own dime. That would be the true definition of goodwill. But you, me, and everyone else who spends money with whatever incentive we have, we are just customers and income for a company.

Everyone who spends money on games has “goodwill” even if their goals do not align with yours. Someone might buy a pack just to support a company, others buy the pack because they want the MTX, but even those who buy packs for cosmetics are aware that their purchase supports the game and pays the developers to work on the game they enjoy. Because if they did not enjoy the game, they would not spend money on the cosmetics and would just move on to something else.

The money of someone who spends it out of “goodwill” has little to no difference from the money of someone who also supports the company, even if their initial interest is just to have cosmetics to add more enjoyment to something they already enjoy. In the end, both are just income for a company after all.

Everyone who already spends more on a game than is strictly necessary shows “goodwill” to help free-to-play games exist because you could play the game completely for free and enjoy it fully. Spending on something that is already free is still a high level of “goodwill” because you could spend or invest that money elsewhere and not in pixels.

Like with all the money I have spent on gaming over multiple years, I could have purchased an even more luxurious car than my already luxurious car, but for me a car is just a tool to get around easily and to be brutally honest I have already overspent on that. Gaming on the other hand is a source of entertainment, so obviously I invest in making that entertainment even more enjoyable while automatically showing “goodwill” to support the creators of the game I enjoy by buying their pixels even though in a free-to-play game I totally do not have to spend a single cent.