Zoom is not fun. It's loot FOMO

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

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If your opinion is worth anything on this topic, describe why we should care about AoE screen clearing. Player numbers mean nothing to me, read the thread title, and the initial post. People will always play the best farm builds, and people playing the most optimal play-style does not make it good for the game.

You are responding on auto-pilot and not considering any of the points that were made. This makes me believe you haven't really thought why you have this opinion, and only care about what the correlation says we are supposed to like.

you simple ran out of arguments.
1) I personally and 50+% of initial starting online played day 30 Affliction because it was full of meaningful gameplay, including aoe clearing rewarding monsters. And it was fun for at least 50%+ of initial online number daily logging in.
2) People who play effective have their fun. If you want to ruin fun of a big % of people you are harmful for the game. I'm tired of hearing argument about "flooding market etc". Why mageblood cost 200+d each league and progenesis 100+? Arent there people who play effectively and farm t0 uniques/low drop rate boss uniques? You wanna turn Path of Exile full of players into some local server of 5 friends with empty market? Ofc you "dont want to ruin the game"

[Removed by Support]

If you are a bot, it's fine. I don't mind this conversation being an example of non-substantive arguments for your opinion.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

You speak about abstract things without any examples
(and I provide examples and statistics for each argument).

- Diablo 1 & 2
- PoE1 in its earlier years.
I explained about 4 times now why your statistics are useless for what's "fun", when players will very often just choose what's effective. So it's useless.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

YES, AOE clearing rewarding monsters is part of the game, and 50% of Affliction's initial online logged in daily to have their fun, whereas nerf leagues with no content have 25% retention.

I don't care what is part of the game, I care about what the game could be.
You care about "rewarding" monsters, but that says nothing about AoE clear gameplay. If you kill 10% as fast but get 1000x of the rewards from monsters, it's still rewarding. Still haven't told me why just clicking one button without thinking is fun gameplay.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

you cannot delete part of the game just because its not fun for you and a bunch of tourists and turn poe into local server of game about pvping with white monsters.

You're missing the irony that both play styles can't exist at the same time, when monster balance has to be taken into account. You don't want engaging combat included in the game, which is no different. Yet, you have PoE1 to play already. Rather than have two different games, you want both games to be like PoE1. So Which one of us wants to remove gameplay choice from the other?

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

You're missing the irony that both play styles can't exist at the same time, when monster balance has to be taken into account. You don't want engaging combat included in the game, which is no different. Yet, you have PoE1 to play already. Rather than have two different games, you want both games to be like PoE1. So Which one of us wants to remove gameplay choice from the other?

They can and they coexist in poe1. You can either farm titanics (singular mega juiced unique mobs) or meatsacks (they are still present but nerfed to the ground) or valdo (meaningful combat against ghosted feared with hard mods on various layouts). or you can juice maps and hunt for affliction procs with bloodlines scarab and destroy screens of monsters/magic blight full of monsters to get loot. you don't need to nerf aoe.
And OH GOD! This league (3.27) titanics, scarab farm through rare monsters and valdos are much more effective than aoe farming screens of monsters as div/h is higher!

You are wrong again my friend!

I want this game to be same as poe1, the best ARPG people ever created, for sure. I don't want this game to be turned into "no rest for the wicked" copy.

"poe1 in its early years was slow"
which years you are talking about? pre-3.0? you mean selfcurse HH was slow? As we had juiced aoe farms such as old beyonds and OG scourge, valley of iron boxes like 10 years before containment scarab, when delirium came out people juiced maps. in OG legion we one-shot legions with ice nowa. and online numbers started increasing with skyhigh rate when they added endgame expansions and content to poe.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

You're missing the irony that both play styles can't exist at the same time, when monster balance has to be taken into account. You don't want engaging combat included in the game, which is no different. Yet, you have PoE1 to play already. Rather than have two different games, you want both games to be like PoE1. So Which one of us wants to remove gameplay choice from the other?

They can and they coexist in poe1. You can either farm titanics (singular mega juiced unique mobs) or meatsacks (they are still present but nerfed to the ground) or valdo (meaningful combat against ghosted feared with hard mods on various layouts). or you can juice maps and hunt for affliction procs with bloodlines scarab and destroy screens of monsters/magic blight full of monsters to get loot. you don't need to nerf aoe.
And OH GOD! This league (3.27) titanics, scarab farm through rare monsters and valdos are much more effective than aoe farming screens of monsters as div/h is higher!

You are wrong again my friend!

I want this game to be same as poe1, the best ARPG people ever created, for sure. I don't want this game to be turned into "no rest for the wicked" copy.

Sorry but I think we're just talking past each other at this point. We're not making any progress. I haven't found your responses so far to be relevant to what I described earlier in the thread about the general gameplay style I advocate for, or the incentive structure players have for playing the clear meta.

The content of titanics and meatsacks might fit your concept of engaging content, but it does not fit mine, so you're arguing with a straw man.

Thanks for the conversation though, and good luck.

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

The content of titanics and meatsacks might fit your concept of engaging content, but it does not fit mine, so you're arguing with a straw man.

So I was right and you want Path of Exile 1 and Path of Exile 2 to become PVP with white monsters? Good to know. Better to know that its not happening in any way.

Also, tell me please in which moment of time old poe1 was slow? When we 1-shot legions with vaal ice nova back in OG legion? When we farmed valley of steel boxes? When we had OG delirium added and everyone played juiced builds as game became much complex and interesting? When we had OG Scourge?
When we ran using selfcurse HH and your character turned into 1 big leg? Tell me

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

The content of titanics and meatsacks might fit your concept of engaging content, but it does not fit mine, so you're arguing with a straw man.

So I was right and you want Path of Exile 1 and Path of Exile 2 to become PVP with white monsters?

Just PoE2, and not PvP. Methodical PvE.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

Good to know. Better that its not happening in any way.

We'll see :)
That's why we talk, right?

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

Also, tell me please in which moment of time old poe1 was slow? When we 1-shot legions with vaal ice nova back in OG legion? When we farmed valley of steel boxes? When we had OG delirium added and everyone played juiced builds as game became much complex and interesting? When we had OG Scourge?
When we ran using selfcurse HH and your character turned into 1 big leg? Tell me

The game has gotten progressively faster over time. The game was much slower back in its earlier iterations. Everyone who's familiar with the game knows this.

Here is Ghazzy to explain it to you, the history of the speed in PoE:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlEb1_VgUbA

Evolution of Path of Exile 2008-2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQCI23aNqq4

:')
<3

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

The game has gotten progressively faster over time. The game was much slower back in its earlier iterations. Everyone who's familiar with the game knows this.
<3

I'm familiar with the game. I farmed legions (oneshotting the whole screen of monsters) back in 3.7, farmed OG scourge, mfed long time ago and there have always been aoe clearing farms. And game was always fast. The more content it got, the more endgame it got, the more people came in enjoying the game.
Again, you want to ruin people who play effective's fun. They have always been present since ancient times of racing events in poe. I already said why its bad to cut down endgame strategies and build variety just to add abstract "meaningful combat" you are talking about without any examples.
Early poe1 was not about PVPing with monsters in any ways, it was about selfcurse HH and leagues which were effectively dens full of mobs with buffed loot (pre-kalandra). Diablo2 was not slow, it was lacking content as the pinnacle endgame was resetting campaign location which is wild for 2025 gamer (thats why D2 remake is not popular at the moment).
Please tell me the definition of meaningful combat if its not "no rest for the wicked" copypaste.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

The game has gotten progressively faster over time. The game was much slower back in its earlier iterations. Everyone who's familiar with the game knows this.
<3

I'm familiar with the game. I farmed legions (oneshotting the whole screen of monsters) back in 3.7, farmed OG scourge, mfed long time ago and there were always aoe clearing farms. And game was always fast. The more content it got, the more endgame it got, the more people came in enjoying the game.
Again, you want to ruin people who play effective's fun. They have always been present since ancient times of racing events in poe. I already said why its bad to cut down endgame strategies and build variety just to add abstract "meaningful combat" you are talking about without any examples.
Early poe1 was not about PVPing with monsters in any ways, it was about selfcurse HH and leagues which were effectively dens full of mobs with buffed loot (pre-kalandra). Diablo2 was not slow, it was lacking content as the pinnacle endgame was resetting campaign location which is wild for 2025 gamer (thats why D2 remake is not popular at the moment).
Please tell me the definition of meaningful combat if its not "no rest for the wicked" copypaste.

I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, just because I have an opinion about the game's direction. And I linked you evidence about how the speed of the game has progressed over the years.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

I'm familiar with the game. I farmed legions (oneshotting the whole screen of monsters) back in 3.7, farmed OG scourge

Long before that friend.

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

Diablo2 was not slow

It was slower. I'm not referring to movement or attack speed, like I've stated. But clear speed (wiping monsters off the screen).

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SoColdO_O#1989 wrote:

thats why D2 remake is not popular at the moment

It has 50k active daily users, and has been around for 25 years.

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WhisperSlade#0532 wrote:

I don't want to ruin anyone's fun, just because I have an opinion about the game's direction. And I linked you evidence about how the speed of the game has progressed over the years.

I do not agree with Ghazzy's position in this video.
There are bows, spears, staff + hollow palm, xbows and some casters like spark which aoe the whole screens of monsters. And there are slow builds, thus majority of players choose fast builds, I sent poe ninja evidence for this.
About poe1: as I mentioned above, old good HH selfcurse was even faster than nowadays KB in poe1. it was NEVER slow

His argument about WoW is bad too. In WoW "shrinking" stats, dps, hp and level means effectively nothing. Its like in WOtLK you avg hp is like 25k and bossfight is 5 min long. In Pandaria your avg hp is 500k if i recall correctly and boss fight is 5 min long. Its about displaying and calculating problems mostly than actual gameplay. Simply: you deal 10k damage its 0.001% of boss' HP in WOtLK, you deal 100k damage its the same 0.001% of boss' HP in pandaria. Nothing effectively changes.

And again he said that he is against meaningful combat forced by "the vision" (hopefully its completely abandoned post 0.2) with parrying white monsters and autoattacking single white mob.