Have no interest in starting over in new league
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The nature of many complaints is akin to a person traveling to a foreign country and getting upset that they speak a different language. Completely absurd. [Removed by Support]
Last edited by Ayelen_GGG#0000 on Jul 28, 2025, 4:16:20 PM
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" The only reason for this is because they are treated like 2nd class citizens. " You have tone-policed, that's it. " This is the first time you mention Balance as a issue. Counterargument: It isn't an issue and why do you care about Standard's balance if you deem it as nothing but a graveyard? " Yes, allow all players access to all content concurrently. " This is projection. " Emphasis added. You don't want a Standard community to exist and promote GGG doing anything and everything to kill it. |
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" You're choosing to ignore pretty huge context just because you don't agree with it, but haven't really made much point in the opposite except "nuh-uh". We've tried to explain the cause and effect that leads us to our conclusion that this suggestion would be unhealthy for cyclical leagues which is the core foundation of this game. Do you assume that GGG has done absolutely no market research on how to make their company profitable? The lack of games following the model you're describing is decently strong evidence that it's not the best model for the genre. I obviously can't prove a negative outright, but I've tried to demonstrate the best evidence we have to go on. For your assertion, I still haven't seen you make any reasoning behind the idea that it wouldn't affect leagues player count and retention to convert our points. I don't care at all if some people play standard. I don't care if they play GTA or touch grass. I do find it just a little bit annoying when people complain because they got exactly what they signed up for but hey, this is the feedback forum. Mostly I don't want my favorite way to play the game, which is it's explicit core design, to be compromised. This suggestion compromises that core in my mind the same way an SSF mode with 10x drop rate would compromise it. I want both standard and SSF to exist for the people that enjoy it. I don't want them to become the default way to play over leagues because in both cases it leads to leagues not existing or really functioning. |
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" Yes. Explicitly and by design of the core of the game. :) |
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" One of these things is not like the other! |
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" [Removed by Support] Why don't you just be honest and say you don't think leagues should exist at all. ;) Last edited by Ayelen_GGG#0000 on Jul 28, 2025, 4:46:40 PM
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" Again, that's projection. I'm totally fine with those playing in leagues doing their own thing. I don't advocate for them to be excluded. It's telling that this is where the discussion has lead. |
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" Shrug. Not at all projection [Removed by Support] There was no disconnect between my previous statements. I want all the game modes to exist as long a their existence doesn't fatally harm leagues. If they become better than leagues then they will drastically harm leagues and I'm against that. As it stands they don't and I'm happy they can coexist. This suggestion would change that balance. For an entirely separate point about this topic. Another reason they have pointed to in the past to justify leagues as the primary vehicle for the game loop is the concept of borrowed power. Because the entire mechanic doesn't go into standard, they feel they have more freedom to add more temporary power during a league. Then the parts that are too powerful just never go into standard. Without that separation, every league ever woyld have to be balanced with the permanent standard economy in mind, including the already insanely ridiculous legacy items that still exist there. In their eyes that means being constricted to less inventive and powerful mechanics. Not sure an immediate reference here; I've just heard of come up here and there in interviews over the years. There are pros and cons and arguments for and against that point for sure. It does also tie into another one of their strong beliefs that it's better not to give someone something than it is to take it away. Which is parallel to their logic for not doing mid league nerfs (for better or worse). Side question: are there any other specific games that you consistently return to for a period of time after every major update? Last edited by Ayelen_GGG#0000 on Jul 28, 2025, 5:10:20 PM
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" This: " directly contradicts: " " That is your own presumption with zero evidence. Further, it reveals that the health of the game overall isn't your true concern, rather the health of leagues is. " Not at all. Simply nerf said things once the a new league begins. Again: why do you care about the balance of a game mode you despise? |
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It doesn't directly contradict at all. I clearly and with intention said "some people", I've clearly said I think leagues and their players should be the first class citizens, and that other modes should come second to that, but can certainly be allowed to exist. But clearly I'm not skilled enough to be capable of explaining that to you so it's entirely moot.
To the last question I don't care about the balance in standard personally. I'm just conveying what I've heard the game designers discuss over the years. I even mentioned there were points against that, just sharing relevant information for you about why they have historically done things the way they have, and haven't shown any evidence of considering anything different to my knowledge to date. In the end you're not really arguing with me, I'm just pointing to the things that GGG has historically said and done as evidence for what they think and are likely to do. I do agree with my understanding of their assessment that league based economies is the best thing for the game longevity and profitably. So you can keep saying "nuh-uh" if you want, but in the end they're the ones that have the data you keep saying we don't have and that you equally don't have. So you'd have to convince them; but either way I still don't see actual supportinh arguments being made. |
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