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I think some people in this thread kind of lost it lol.
POE2 (and any sequel) divided the player base. POE1 players want another league and were promised that league cycles were not going to be interrupted. It is fair to be upset about that. But a lot of the anger in this thread is definitely not productive.
I do hope they don't undervalue their POE1 fanbase and give good content in 3.26. The ARPG genre isn't that large and the fan base is much smaller than other games. They had such a strong following with POE1 that was growing year by year. It would be sad if that went down significantly and maybe a little financially worrying if POE2 players don't have the same retention.
POE 2 brought in new players like me — people who never touched POE 1 and also those who only played it a little, or have friends with 1,000+ hours in poe 1. It felt like a breath of fresh air for the genre, despite clear performance issues, soft BSODs, server instability, obvious bugs, and GGG going on vacation right after launching Early Access (which says a lot about their development priorities).
Patch 0.1 was still a solid start, especially compared to the current state of many “finished” releases. You could see the foundation — core systems were there, and it just needed polish and more content.
And then came 0.2.
Not only did they fail to fix existing issues or finish unfinished systems, but they also:
A) Over-nerfed things that weren’t even working properly in the first place (shoutout to everyone who tried to make a flask-based Pathfinder build).
B) Only acknowledged and fixed major problems after harsh interviews with big streamers forced them to.
C) Keep stubbornly clinging to a “vision” of gameplay where you parry a mob, perform a combo — and repeat. The problem? Absolutely everyone is telling them this “vision” doesn’t work in a reality where POE 2 is copied 1:1 from POE 1, with none of the mechanics reworked to support that style.
If you disagree, feel free to try it yourself: grab a shield, queue up a T18 Delirium map, and try parrying and comboing mobs one by one — just like GGG “intended.” Let me know how that goes.
Either rework the mechanics to fit your vision, or rework the vision to fit the mechanics — but you can’t have it both ways.
And yet Jonathan keeps arguing otherwise.
[img]https://i.ibb.co/HDhPxJkY/GGG.png[/img]
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Posted byShaDarkLord#6528on May 20, 2025, 4:03:01 AM
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I think some people in this thread kind of lost it lol.
POE2 (and any sequel) divided the player base. POE1 players want another league and were promised that league cycles were not going to be interrupted. It is fair to be upset about that. But a lot of the anger in this thread is definitely not productive.
I do hope they don't undervalue their POE1 fanbase and give good content in 3.26. The ARPG genre isn't that large and the fan base is much smaller than other games. They had such a strong following with POE1 that was growing year by year. It would be sad if that went down significantly and maybe a little financially worrying if POE2 players don't have the same retention.
POE 2 brought in new players like me — people who never touched POE 1 and also those who only played it a little, or have friends with 1,000+ hours in poe 1. It felt like a breath of fresh air for the genre, despite clear performance issues, soft BSODs, server instability, obvious bugs, and GGG going on vacation right after launching Early Access (which says a lot about their development priorities).
Patch 0.1 was still a solid start, especially compared to the current state of many “finished” releases. You could see the foundation — core systems were there, and it just needed polish and more content.
And then came 0.2.
Not only did they fail to fix existing issues or finish unfinished systems, but they also:
A) Over-nerfed things that weren’t even working properly in the first place (shoutout to everyone who tried to make a flask-based Pathfinder build).
B) Only acknowledged and fixed major problems after harsh interviews with big streamers forced them to.
C) Keep stubbornly clinging to a “vision” of gameplay where you parry a mob, perform a combo — and repeat. The problem? Absolutely everyone is telling them this “vision” doesn’t work in a reality where POE 2 is copied 1:1 from POE 1, with none of the mechanics reworked to support that style.
If you disagree, feel free to try it yourself: grab a shield, queue up a T18 Delirium map, and try parrying and comboing mobs one by one — just like GGG “intended.” Let me know how that goes.
Either rework the mechanics to fit your vision, or rework the vision to fit the mechanics — but you can’t have it both ways.
And yet Jonathan keeps arguing otherwise.
I agree with your disagreement. I personally am not a fan of the vision and current endgame atlas/passives/progression either. My problem with 0.2 is they tried to do too much. They wanted to fix endgame, rebalance skills, introduce huntress, and introduce mechanics. Ultimately what happened was meh endgame solutions, over-nerfed skills, huntress is OP, and the endgame mechanics were disappointing (wisps).
They need to focus on specific issues and clear that per patch. Goals like finishing the acts, introducing classes, introducing crafting mechanics, or reworking endgame. Of course balance things that are trivializing content, but they went to far on skills. They've ended up in this weird live service / league model instead of a true EA and it is slowing their development and causing frustrations for their players. This year will probably be the worst set of cycles for POE2, but I'll be patient and see what the game looks like at the end before I go full doomer. I do wish I had POE1 content to grind and enjoy while they figure out what they want POE2 to be.
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Posted byE13ctric#2529on May 20, 2025, 5:19:38 AM
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I think some people in this thread kind of lost it lol.
POE2 (and any sequel) divided the player base. POE1 players want another league and were promised that league cycles were not going to be interrupted. It is fair to be upset about that. But a lot of the anger in this thread is definitely not productive.
I do hope they don't undervalue their POE1 fanbase and give good content in 3.26. The ARPG genre isn't that large and the fan base is much smaller than other games. They had such a strong following with POE1 that was growing year by year. It would be sad if that went down significantly and maybe a little financially worrying if POE2 players don't have the same retention.
POE 2 brought in new players like me — people who never touched POE 1 and also those who only played it a little, or have friends with 1,000+ hours in poe 1. It felt like a breath of fresh air for the genre, despite clear performance issues, soft BSODs, server instability, obvious bugs, and GGG going on vacation right after launching Early Access (which says a lot about their development priorities).
Patch 0.1 was still a solid start, especially compared to the current state of many “finished” releases. You could see the foundation — core systems were there, and it just needed polish and more content.
And then came 0.2.
Not only did they fail to fix existing issues or finish unfinished systems, but they also:
A) Over-nerfed things that weren’t even working properly in the first place (shoutout to everyone who tried to make a flask-based Pathfinder build).
B) Only acknowledged and fixed major problems after harsh interviews with big streamers forced them to.
C) Keep stubbornly clinging to a “vision” of gameplay where you parry a mob, perform a combo — and repeat. The problem? Absolutely everyone is telling them this “vision” doesn’t work in a reality where POE 2 is copied 1:1 from POE 1, with none of the mechanics reworked to support that style.
If you disagree, feel free to try it yourself: grab a shield, queue up a T18 Delirium map, and try parrying and comboing mobs one by one — just like GGG “intended.” Let me know how that goes.
Either rework the mechanics to fit your vision, or rework the vision to fit the mechanics — but you can’t have it both ways.
And yet Jonathan keeps arguing otherwise.
Oh I will add, I am relatively new to POE (Settlers) but have seen how much this game has changed over the years. A game state or league that doesn't feel good to me or you isn't indicative of how the game will feel in a year. It will eventually evolve into what the community see as fun. It sometimes just takes GGG some time.
I have a feeling they are trying to temper players expectations with the "vision" but eventually the voice of the community will push them out of it. That's my guess, but I guess we have to wait and see.
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Posted byE13ctric#2529on May 20, 2025, 5:25:57 AM
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I agree with your disagreement. I personally am not a fan of the vision and current endgame atlas/passives/progression either. My problem with 0.2 is they tried to do too much. They wanted to fix endgame, rebalance skills, introduce huntress, and introduce mechanics. Ultimately what happened was meh endgame solutions, over-nerfed skills, huntress is OP, and the endgame mechanics were disappointing (wisps).
They need to focus on specific issues and clear that per patch. Goals like finishing the acts, introducing classes, introducing crafting mechanics, or reworking endgame. Of course balance things that are trivializing content, but they went to far on skills. They've ended up in this weird live service / league model instead of a true EA and it is slowing their development and causing frustrations for their players. This year will probably be the worst set of cycles for POE2, but I'll be patient and see what the game looks like at the end before I go full doomer. I do wish I had POE1 content to grind and enjoy while they figure out what they want POE2 to be.
I believe one of the biggest mistakes they made was deciding to treat EA the same as their planned season model, limiting their ability to implement sweeping changes to "once every 3 months". I think it would be a lot better for the game to come out and say something like: "From now on, we will be releasing new content once per month, and make mechanics and balancing changes once every two weeks" (as an example). They need to both up their "output" of new content and their courage to completely revamp systems if need be - the Atlas progression system being a prime example that requires fundamental rethinking rather than incremental tweaks.
Right now, that "half-hearted" approach to changes and content is probably the biggest contributor to the general feeling of "directionlessness" a lot of people might be feeling. More frequent updates would give players tangible evidence of progress and a clearer vision of where the game is heading, which would likely improve community sentiment during early access.
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Posted bydreamstate42#3955on May 20, 2025, 6:12:10 AM
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Hi everyone,
Please keep in mind the forums are for civil, constructive discussion of the game, and avoid antagonising and personally attacking one another as it breaches our rules.
Hi GGG,
Please make a decent game.
"buff grenades"
- Buff Grenades (Buff-Grenades)
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Posted byauspexa#1404on May 20, 2025, 6:17:01 AMOn Probation
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Hi everyone,
Please keep in mind the forums are for civil, constructive discussion of the game, and avoid antagonising and personally attacking one another as it breaches our rules.
Hi GGG,
Please make a decent game.
Its a decent game. At least in my opinion. Just because its not what some people want it doesnt make it a bad game.
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Posted byAlzucard#2422on May 20, 2025, 6:37:08 AM
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Hi everyone,
Please keep in mind the forums are for civil, constructive discussion of the game, and avoid antagonising and personally attacking one another as it breaches our rules.
Please tell Jonathan POE 1 > POE 2 by a lot.
And that GGG would have never been popular if POE 2 was their original "vision".
I say this because I'm not sure Jonathan knows he is the problem. But he should.
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Posted byRakie1337#5746on May 20, 2025, 6:41:37 AM
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But you are doing the same thing, I don't know if you are doing it intentionally just to troll, or actually don't realize it.
He is right though, you do frame your opinions as facts, why would you deny it?
And I don't see your point in comparing Path of Exile 1 to Path of Exile 2, you said you didn't play it. You base all your arguments to "watched" gameplay? Seems a bit weird, at least to me.
PoE2 is not pure souls like, comparing it to Sekiro is pointless, it will lead to nothing. Sure, there is room to very specifics things, but is not really a comparison because the fundamentals are different.
He said he enjoys PoE2 and you doubt it, or worse: you make it look bad for doing so, like some kind of crime for enjoying a thing. Why are you here, may I know?
Now, to adhere to your way of speaking: do you feel good from your tight circle that you are living in, to lash on others?
He didn't frame much things as fact, he actually used keywords "my opinion", "I like", "it feels" quite a lot.
The "frame" you are talking about is by definition your own perception. Starting this very sentence with "he is right", was kinda ironic.
Comparing PoE2 to different games isn't pointless in his context, as it wasn't directly game to game. Games mechanics are often designed with inspiration from other games (you like facts, this is one).
That's what he did : some mechanics aren't bad intrinsically, but they can be bad when implemented in different genres. That's what he wrote and is completely valid.
It's even more sad that you quote Sekiro, as it was litteraly brought up by him as giving context regarding his gaming habits. Did you really read or you just scanned through ?
The other guy said he enjoys PoE2, that would have been fine. That's not where the issue is. He is full of hyperboles, borderline insults, and quite often just wrong.
Sentences like "I'm sorry the maps are not empty flat squares to zoom through and leave asap, which might be your preference." are laughable if that's supposed to be an argument (that may not be obvious to you : that's the hyperbole category).
Reminder that their whole convo started with : "not some gospel to be followed just because it happens to echo your sentiments".
That's basically whiteknighting. You like the game as is ? Perfect, good for you, then go play, it doesn't need your defense on a forum.
As you seem to like facts :
"Ah yes, it's me the outlier vs the "community", ofc impersonated by you and your bs opinions."
The fact is, that majority didn't like 0.2. He can like it, good for him. But he IS the outlier and the other is more in line with players behaviour.
Finally when I read :
"I also like 1 and play it a lot even now"
and I see 2 challenges in settlers, that lasted so many months, I'll reserve the right to press X to doubt the purposes and sincerity of this guy.
When someone presents his subjective views as objective truths, then yes is considered by definition a fact. You choose to not see his hypocrisy (talking about the guy you defend) or what?
How was he wrong about echoing the sentiments? It's literally observable in this whole thread, and in his texts (again, the guy you defend). And why shouldn't one defend something they enjoy? Do you think everyone close their eyes to blatant hate on this forum, or what?
If this behavior you are talking about is the destructive feedback that is so spread here on the forum then I don't know what to tell you. No one said anything bad about the constructive or mannered feedback, everyone pushes back when people come and just insult and present their frustration (as valid as it may be, when is just channeled with insults it loses any attention) as feedback. If I say: "this game sucks so much", what a feedback! I am sure GGG will benefit from it and will make the game tomorrow what I really want it to be, even though they have no clue what my desires are.
So is the other guy full of insults, but let's just close our eyes to that. Claiming superiority over playing some games, diminishing the other guy for enjoying PoE2, like some kind of disadvantage in life for playing it, but sure, you can skip that part.
Is just a cycle in the end, some will say X is right, while others will say Y is right, but what matters is that there will be no enjoyment of developing a product when people just choose the easy way and bash and insult instead of presenting their frustrations in a mannered way, something that will help devs actually extract firmly what the players what and starting working on it.
At the eve of the end
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When someone presents his subjective views as objective truths, then yes is considered by definition a fact. You choose to not see his hypocrisy (talking about the guy you defend) or what?
How was he wrong about echoing the sentiments? It's literally observable in this whole thread, and in his texts (again, the guy you defend). And why shouldn't one defend something they enjoy? Do you think everyone close their eyes to blatant hate on this forum, or what?
Subjective view is still a view. Nowhere did he stated them as fact. He only said that it wasn't an emotional response, nor it was his preference, but rather an educated conclusion. The objective truth you talk about doesn't exist, it's not all binary mate, maybe it is in your head, idk. Let me illustrate :
My emotional response :
- I hate ruthless. It's just boring to me. If I wanna struggle, enough challenges in daily life, that in a game ? no thanks.
Educated conclusion, call it objective truths if you want :
- Ruthless is bad for the game. It's not something GGG should go for, and it's fine if it is a side project.
Bcause the facts are :
- Ruthless community represents 1% at best of the player base. It wasn't well received when it came out.
It's not as binary as you say, as you can see there are more nuances. And I can definitely bring an "objective truth" despite having a strong opposite opinion.
That's what ShaDarkLord did. He explained multiple times, expanding responding to someone confronting him, regarding how he came to those conclusions. And they are valid, the same way I did regarding ruthless above.
He was constructive until someone jumped on him with the gospel thing, like someone with divine guidance trying to defend the poor forum. I'm not disregarding the tone, I just see two dudes that got in a heated "discussion". I just kept in mind who was and stayed confrontational. If you wanna blame toxicity, please don't bring it with you in the first place, that's my stance.
By the way, "destructive feedback" isn't a thing mate, that's a forum, noone's destroying anything nor have any power. Using strong words doesn't make them more impactful. Don't be naïve thinking GGG takes relevant feedback from here anyway, that's a place for people to vent, it's just noise.
But at this point I'm starting to and will only repeat myself. You can read more details in my other answers to those 2 guys, if you ever read them.
Last edited by rob_korn#1745 on May 20, 2025, 12:32:35 PM
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Posted byrob_korn#1745on May 20, 2025, 12:31:38 PM
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Ofc you will not get into it, you have no leg to stand on.
Same can be said to you and the other guy, you don't like it leave. And yes I am going to play it today, and will defend here or there from opinions stated as facts.
Oh I have legs to stand on. The issue is that you say stuff like this :
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"Ah yes, it's me the outlier vs the "community", ofc impersonated by you and your bs opinions."
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it's a great time for hc ruthless ssf
without flinching. You ARE the outlier, and proved it again. There is no arguing with you, because you don't make much sense alone already.
He’s an outlier, exactly like you said. Even the worst ideas have their die-hard fans.
There are people who genuinely enjoy Diablo Immortal. And you know what? That’s totally fine — as long as they keep their exotic tastes to themselves instead of preaching them like gospel.
I sarcastically called myself an outlier in response to this quote
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You can be endlessly stubborn, showering GGG with praise — but you won’t fool the community with empty flattery.
Outlier as a lone PoE 2 defender vs some imagined, unified, single voice "community" that I'm trying to fool, which is obviously false in a half a million strong playerbase. Nothing to do with the mode I currently play.
Also I never said I play it exclusively, I just said it's a great time for Ruthless HC SSF. The guy you quote assumed a bit too much maybe, everyone does it seems. I saw people assume, without any proof or mention, that smb plays no mechanically complex games like they do, and passionately argue that fantasy scenario.
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he reads diagonally, rips a half-sentence out of context, and then passionately argues against the fantasy version of your opinion he invented in his own head — usually by blowing it up into some absurd caricature.
You say I rip half-sentences out of context, answering a post with my half-sentences ripped completely out of context. The amount of irony here is staggering.
And I play everything, can enjoy both the power trip of zoom, and the scarcity and well, ruthlessness of ruthless. Might be why I don't mind having 2 games with different philosophies, being able to appreciate both.
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Enjoying SSF HC in POE 2?
Sure, that sounds like a perfectly normal thing to enjoy… if you’re into digital masochism.
(Although, ironically, I do think the game should be balanced around SSF. Now that’s what an opinion looks like.)
Except it was about me playing HC SSF Ruthless. Learn your modes please.
How is HC SSF digital masochism, because of no trade? It's full game otherwise, I play this mode for fun, and hc just make the trivial parts like campaign more exciting, bring weight to gameplay and demands proper focus. Nothing masochistic about it.
How do you even know btw? From what you've just said, you came with PoE 2. Did you play it enough yourself, or just repeating the opinion of others?
Last edited by Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 on May 20, 2025, 11:04:46 PM
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